***Official New Zealand in India Nov-Dec 2021 Thread***

[Prince EWS]

Mitchell is an above average FC allrounder, and he can play that well against this attack. No excuses for the other blokes tbh.

Mitchell shouldn't be batting 3 in Test cricket but I actually think he's sneaky good tbh.

 

[Flem274*]

Has a bit more about him than that tbh. I am curious to know why he's spent most of his FC career averaging sub-35 with the bat (it's up to 38 now).

Dire runout. Don't think there was run there.

Soz I might not have been clear - Mitchell's results in the Shield show an above average FC batting allrounder, but also someone who wasn't special. That he can bat like this shows the system is consistently producing good players, and the players obviously better than him should have done better.

 

[honestbharani]

Pitch has slowed down considerably after 2 and a bit days of sunshine. I think the 2 days before the test being full of rain did not help the curators at all.

 

[straw man]

Speaking of #intent, Kohli seems intent on Jayant getting a wicket, when he could instead just bowl Ashwin and Axar and wrap the match up quickly.

 

[thierry henry]

Yeah I’m not keen on Ashwin finishing up with like 12/50 for the match but it feels inevitable

 

[straw man]

Soz I might not have been clear - Mitchell's results in the Shield show an above average FC batting allrounder, but also someone who wasn't special. That he can bat like this shows the system is consistently producing good players, and the players obviously better than him should have done better.

Partly agree, though I'm saying he does have a level of talent (that word) that, when combined with maturity and knowing his game as he does now, is enough to be an international player. So he is a bit 'special' but for whatever reason it took a while to make itself felt.

 

[thierry henry]

Is Mitchell in our best XI for a home test right now? Ajaz? I feel like Rachin gives us the luxury of fielding the 4-prong while still having batting depth and a spin option, but Ajaz (duh) and Mitchell have made cases.

 

[ashley bach]

A Patel hugs A Patel.

happens countless times everyday all over the globe, in all kinds of different ways...

 

[straw man]

Is Mitchell in our best XI for a home test right now? Ajaz? I feel like Rachin gives us the luxury of fielding the 4-prong while still having batting depth and a spin option, but Ajaz (duh) and Mitchell have made cases.

Fair question and I don't know. Firstly, have he and Jamieson squeezed out CDG? Mitchell more of a batsman and less of a bowler than him.

Even if CDG is out of the picture, there are still multiple options for the all-rounder/part-time-pace/part-time-spin/spin balance. Will be conditions dependent. And will be interesting.

 

[honestbharani]

@hendrix was annoyed that I suggested Kanpur mornings were about as good as it gets for swing bowlers in India. This is what I meant. Many pitches in India, especially outside of early to mid winter, do encourage the skiddier hit the stumps, reverse swing type bowlers. The softer pitches up north in early winter and the cool mornings are excellent for swing bowlers. Take a look at the UP and RAjasthan swing bowlers who have made merry for ages in Ranji in those conditions. Of course, you still have to bowl well enough to get international players out and that is what Southee and KJ did, but like I said, those conditions were as good as they can get for themselves in India. You can see the difference here on a pitch with much truer pace and bounce and not as much swing.

Its the Indian seamers who suddenly look a million times better than the Kiwi swing bowlers.

 

[Moss]

Fair question and I don't know. Firstly, have he and Jamieson squeezed out CDG? Mitchell more of a batsman and less of a bowler than him.

Even if CDG is out of the picture, there are still multiple options for the all-rounder/part-time-pace/part-time-spin/spin balance. Will be conditions dependent. And will be interesting.

I think the old formula of the XI used in the WTC final (Conway plus longtime 4 batsmen, CdG, keeper and 4 pacemen) would still work at home. Perhaps it’s time to look beyond though. Would want Ravindra as a more regular member of the XI batting higher if possible, a top order bat who also bowls is pretty important especially since KW no longer bowls.

 

[thierry henry]

Fair question and I don't know. Firstly, have he and Jamieson squeezed out CDG? Mitchell more of a batsman and less of a bowler than him.

Even if CDG is out of the picture, there are still multiple options for the all-rounder/part-time-pace/part-time-spin/spin balance. Will be conditions dependent. And will be interesting.

Yeah I had just sort of assumed that CDG had effectively been retired given Mitchell’s selection ahead of him in tests and T20s. Also, with the 4-strong seam attack there’s no longer a need for CDG’s bowling.

For the same reason I don’t really think there’s a need for Mitchell or Ajaz. Just raising it cos a mate did.

Probably all academic anyway as injuries will happen (or in KW’s case, have happened).

 

[nzfan]

Spare a thought for Rachin... **** none has been tested like this in my recent memory of watching cricket.

Debut in one of the toughest places to tour, bat to draw the debut test match, catch the swirling skyer for a 10 fer, bat out the day in twilight vs Ashwin/Axar with result nowhere in the sight and half the team is back in the hut. Great for the kid but you need steel to absorb that sort of pressure. Give the kid a break for heaven's sake. At this rate he'll age very quick. That nice lid will disappear quickly or go grey.

 

[ashley bach]

Is Mitchell in our best XI for a home test right now? Ajaz? I feel like Rachin gives us the luxury of fielding the 4-prong while still having batting depth and a spin option, but Ajaz (duh) and Mitchell have made cases.

He'd have to go very close, can see him possibly even playing one day as a batsman only, his bowling would be a bonus.
Of course the interesting part is where his spot would be in the order, it's very unclear at the moment, i'm going to go out on a
limb, and guessing that in 2-3 years from now he'll end up at number 4, or perhaps 5.
Selectors will have a few problems(which is good)choosing from about 3-4 players where 1 or 2 of them play.
But alas what often happens is that over the entire home season, those in the ''close zone'' all end up getting a trot at some stage.

 

[Flem274*]

The home selections greatly depend on whether Williamson and Conway are available and Taylor's looming retirement.

They also depend on the abject batting positions. I know it worked okay sort of, but I will be super pissed if this is the order of the top 7 at home sans KW/Conway.

 

[Flem274*]

@hendrix was annoyed that I suggested Kanpur mornings were about as good as it gets for swing bowlers in India. This is what I meant. Many pitches in India, especially outside of early to mid winter, do encourage the skiddier hit the stumps, reverse swing type bowlers. The softer pitches up north in early winter and the cool mornings are excellent for swing bowlers. Take a look at the UP and RAjasthan swing bowlers who have made merry for ages in Ranji in those conditions. Of course, you still have to bowl well enough to get international players out and that is what Southee and KJ did, but like I said, those conditions were as good as they can get for themselves in India. You can see the difference here on a pitch with much truer pace and bounce and not as much swing.

Its the Indian seamers who suddenly look a million times better than the Kiwi swing bowlers.

Absolute rubbish. Siraj was brilliant no question, but Jamieson and Southee have considerable height over the Indian quicks and this deck is much better suited to them than the slow low Kanpur. They just didn't bowl well enough, and Southee was probably a bit unlucky.

Stop even trying to argue this. There is no world in which Southee and KJ choose to bowl on a slow, low bounce pitch if given a choice in India.

 

[thierry henry]

The home selections greatly depend on whether Williamson and Conway are available and Taylor's looming retirement.

They also depend on the abject batting positions. I know it worked okay sort of, but I will be super pissed if this is the order of the top 7 at home sans KW/Conway.

Who bats 3 in the no KW and no Conway version of the team? Ravindra? Could we end up seeing a top 4 which is some combination of Latham/Young/Phillips/Ravindra?

 

[Flem274*]

Who bats 3 in the no KW and no Conway version of the team? Ravindra? Could we end up seeing a top 4 which is some combination of Latham/Young/Phillips/Ravindra?

Young imo. Ravindra's an opener, and after following 2ish seasons of domestic cricket dukaburra trash on green pre-xmas decks, it's time to pull the trigger on his test career imo. He will develop more from our home summer on good pitches against a sensible ball than he will at Wellington.

NZ seem keen on converting Young to open though, which I'm skeptical of.

 

[honestbharani]

Absolute rubbish. Siraj was brilliant no question, but Jamieson and Southee have considerable height over the Indian quicks and this deck is much better suited to them than the slow low Kanpur. They just didn't bowl well enough, and Southee was probably a bit unlucky.

Stop even trying to argue this. There is no world in which Southee and KJ choose to bowl on a slow, low bounce pitch if given a choice in India.

Rubbish and "stop arguing" is what your posts' default response should be about cricket in any thread. And when wickets aid swing, they are generally slightly on the slower side. And yes, low pitches does help given the fact that Southee and KJ are both tall enough to get it bounce more than normal and batsmen will find it tough. They did not bowl poorly as much as their MO was not the right fit for this pitch. Southee still got some movement but with the ball going through, it makes it easier for batsmen to just leave it, than when it is a touch slower and you are tempted to drive. Its the same way when spinners tend to slow it down when they want the edge.

And its not about the slow and low anyways. Its about the conditions that aid swing in winter mornings in the north. And the figures show what they would prefer than your lame-ass post there.

 

[Days of Grace]

If Kane is injured and Ross retires:

Latham
Ravindra
Young
Conway
Nicholls
Mitchell
Blundell
Jamieson
Southee
Wagner
Patel/Boult

Each batsman in what, imo, is their natural position.