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Wasim Akram vs Dennis Lillee

Who was the greater bowler?

  • Wasim Akram

    Votes: 32 49.2%

  • Dennis Lillee

    Votes: 33 50.8%
  • Total voters
    65
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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Migara said:
That makes perfect sense. If a player keeps bashing two or three oppositions in 75% of his matches and gets walloped greater number of oopsitions in other 25%, the overall stats are hugely warped than a player who does well against every team but has higher overall average.
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Ah I see what you mean. That's a reasonable suggestion but kind of a completely different thing, and not really relevant to this exercise. By averaging out the value of each wickets you're already balanced out for the weakness or strength of opposition.
 
Pap Finn Keighl

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
Migara said:
Fractions of
Top order wickets - x
Middle order - y
Lower order - z

Relative weight of top order wicket 1.225, middle order wicket 1.159, lower order wicket 0.505 (base on averages)

bowling average a, adjusted average A

A = ax/1.225 + ay/1.159 + cz / 0.505

You may even look at A/a or A - a as well.
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This is just another way of saying better top order wicket % = greater bowler.
You made it little more complex.. Thats all.

What we really want to know is actual avg for each segments. Like Hadlee took 100 top order wickets at an avg of 25..etc


Also adjusted averages supposed to be better than actual avg for bowlers with higher % of top order wickets. I was expecting Zaheer to avg less than 30 or even 25 ?.. Nevertheless his avg difference is the best amobg the lot.
 
Pap Finn Keighl

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
TheJediBrah said:
Wow that's great. I wasn't aware. Looks like pretty much the same results as Migaras mini-effort.
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Unnecessary efforts.
I dont need to do all these calculations to know Zaheer Khan's wickets will be among most valued Wickets.. Because his Top order % is very high and lower order % is very low.
And this data is readily available in howstat.
 
K

Kirkut

International Regular
TheJediBrah said:
Nah, this is flawed logic. Just because the tail can sometimes make a few runs doesn't make lower-order wickets as valuable as wickets of proper batsman. Dismissing the tail is a valuable skill, but if it comes with a reduced ability to take top-order wickets (eg. Starc) then it's not even close to worth it.
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That's true in general. But I've had unpleasant memories as an Indian fan when it came to cleaning up the tail.

Just look at Shardul Thakur, who was brought in as a bowler who could bat a bit only to end up batting like Steve Smith at his prime and freely scoring runs off fast bowlers.
 
ankitj

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
TheJediBrah said:
Wow that's great. I wasn't aware. Looks like pretty much the same results as Migaras mini-effort.

With the exception of Warne v Murali.
Warne actually has a higher average value of wicket. This could be explained by Murali playing so much against Bang and Zim so doesn't really tell you much
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I have re-posted that about 50 times on this board. How did you never see it before?
 
Migara

Migara

International Coach
Pap Finn Keighl said:
Unnecessary efforts.
I dont need to do all these calculations to know Zaheer Khan's wickets will be among most valued Wickets.. Because his Top order % is very high and lower order % is very low.
And this data is readily available in howstat.
Click to expand...
True, but that will be with relation to the bowling average. There is a point where 100% top oder wickets cannot out weight the difference in bowling average. (100% tail enders vs 100% top order would be 2.5 times the average. If you average 20 with all tail ender wickets and if you have 100% top order wickets and average 60, there is no way the adjusted average become lower than 20)
 
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ataraxia

ataraxia

International Coach
trundler said:
Ankit literally did that though.

How valuable is that wicket!

Long time back I came across a comprehensive analysis of bowlers based on the "value"of the wickets they take. The approach was wonderfully elegant and very logical. The article is not online anymore. Nevertheless I decided to do the exercise again. I am happy to share the results of my hard...
www.cricketweb.net
Click to expand...
Vettori > O'Reilly and Hadlee confirmed
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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Kirkut said:
That's true in general. But I've had unpleasant memories as an Indian fan when it came to cleaning up the tail.

Just look at Shardul Thakur, who was brought in as a bowler who could bat a bit only to end up batting like Steve Smith at his prime and freely scoring runs off fast bowlers.
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That's subjective experience obscuring the truth. Like saying "I remember Bangladesh winning a game against my team, therefore performance against Bangladesh is just as important".
 
Burgey

Burgey

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Was basically a slow, left arm Brett Lee - largely rubbish for most of his career then had a couple of decent years towards the end which bizarrely leads his country's fans to somehow remember him fondly.
 
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