Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
Because you said.. Mcgrath's Top order wicket taking ability is unparalleled in history.
Now you are giving filters and excuses.
Ok.. What about Lillee then?
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Glenn McGrath vs Richard Hadlee
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
Now you are giving filters and excuses.
Ok.. What about Lillee then?
TheJediBrah
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Look, I'm assuming a certain level of common sense in those reading. To be clear as possible, I mean in comparison with other bowlers of a similar level.
Not as good as McGrath by that metric. Higher percentage of 4-6 but much lower percentage of 1-3
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
Lol.. Thats because he took more WPM.. I too expect.. Minimum level of common sense in arguments.
TheJediBrah
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What? Wpm doesn't affect percentage. Percentage is literally a percentage.
And again, wpm is virtually meaningless in this context anyway. Affected by way too many other factors
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
McGrath is unparalleled, because..
Hadlee had no competition for wickets
Kapil's Avg is higher
Lillee took more wpm
Donald is South African...
Hadlee had no competition for wickets
Kapil's Avg is higher
Lillee took more wpm
Donald is South African...
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
Percentage is literally a percentage..
All hail Zaheer Khan
TheJediBrah
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Ffs, again, you would never use that as a factor unless you're comparing 2 almost statistically identical players, for obvious reasons
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
Then you must not use the term "unparalleled" ffs.
And why isn't Lillee (or Donald) better.. when he took more top order wickets per match than Mcgrath?
TheJediBrah
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*facepalm*
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
Taking no wickets outside 1-3 makes you a better bowler than someone who takes 1-3 and 4-11 *facepalm*
TheJediBrah
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Why are you having such a hard time with this? I'm taking a leap of faith that you're not having me on here and I'll try my best to explain it.
The only reason this "wickets by batting position" is potentially a relevant factor is because if you're looking to differentiate similar players, a higher percentage of top (and middle) order wickets compared to lower order wickets indicates a more valuable performance, because batsman wickets are worth more than tail enders.
Forget about McGrath, or specific bowlers from specific countries if you can. If you just pretend we're not talking about actual players, you understand the logic behind that right?
sunilz
International Regular
You shouldn't have used the word unparalleled.
Or you should have clarified that unparalleled word comes with Terms & Conditions
TheJediBrah
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Definitely seems that way. But can you imagine how tedious it would be if everyone explained and qualified everything they said to that extent? You have to assume a certain level of implication otherwise discussion would be unbearable
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
Hadlee:
| Batter | Mat | Dis | Mat/Dis |
|---|---|---|---|
| CG Greenidge (WI) | 10 | 6 | 1.66 |
| SM Gavaskar (INDIA) | 8 | 4 | 2.00 |
| GS Chappell (AUS) | 13 | 6 | 2.16 |
| IVA Richards (WI) | 7 | 3 | 2.33 |
| AR Border (AUS) | 16 | 6 | 2.66 |
| Javed Miandad (PAK) | 11 | 4 | 2.75 |
McGrath:
| Batter | Mat | Dis | Mat/Dis |
|---|---|---|---|
| Younis Khan (PAK) | 6 | 5 | 1.20 |
| V Sehwag (ICC/INDIA) | 5 | 4 | 1.25 |
| SR Tendulkar (INDIA) | 9 | 6 | 1.50 |
| BC Lara (ICC/WI) | 24 | 15 | 1.60 |
| JH Kallis (ICC/SA) | 14 | 6 | 2.33 |
| R Dravid (ICC/INDIA) | 12 | 5 | 2.40 |
| KC Sangakkara (SL) | 2 | 0 | - |
McGrath wins IMO.
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
No.. I dont understand
Player A
4 top order wickets + 4 lower order wickets per match
Top order 50%
Player B
3 top order wickets + 2 lower order wickets
Top order 60%
How is player B more valuable?
TheJediBrah
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I have explained this directly 2 or 3 times already on the last page alone . . . it's only a relevant factor if you're comparing 2 players with nearly identical stats.
Your Player A and Player B are not similar at all. Player A is taking nearly twice as many wickets, and I assume, at a much better average.
Again though, wickets per match/innings is not a good measurement at all anyway
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Surprised by Hadlee's numbers, thought it would be better. Marshall's are more comparable to McGrath in this respect.