Joe Root vs Virat Kohli vs Kane Williamson in Tests

[Teja.]

No ones arguing Williamson is better than Tendulkar though. He isn't close. Only Bradman, Hobbs, Sobers, Smith, Hammond and peak Richards can try that.

It's entertaining watching people claim the games a 20-23 year old batting #3 count for everything whereas a supposed peak of his powers batsman can't buy a run for nearly two years because he chases outswingers like Peter Fulton but that doesn't count at all. Root came into test cricket well protected down the order. I remember watching him early on and getting the sinking feeling he'd troll my team for 15 years.

I'd take Root on current form out of the entire fab 4, but he has some catching up to do numbers wise. The averages are excellent but disguise the constant 70s and 80s. The other three, if their average is high somewhere, tend to get the job done as well.

There's actually a fair enough argument for rating Kohli and Root over Williamson, but you're not even making it because you've found a statsguru average. Kohli tends to go on absolute streaks (partly due to greater opportunity) when he's hot and his obnoxiousness gets under the opposition skin, giving India a mental edge. Root lately (besides the 2 test blip) looks like taking over from Smith in the 'I'm a level above the other 21 players on this field' thing.

I'm starting to learn it speaks volumes in player comparisons if people spend a lot of time tearing someone down without actually making the case for the other guy. If you want to play statsguru I'll make some Kohli/Root ABSOLUTE SPUD video compilations.

FWIW. I gave my thoughts in this comparision on the first page. I think the three are extremely close with Kohli still a bit ahead on career accomplishments but Root and KW will probably end up ahead of him by the end because Kohli seems to be in decline and it’s highly unpredictable whether or not he will have a second atg run.

I looked this up out of geniune curiosity lol.

 

[Flem274*]

FWIW. I gave my thoughts in this comparision on the first page. I think the three are extremely close with Kohli still a bit ahead on career accomplishments but Root and KW will probably end up ahead of him by the end because Kohli seems to be in decline and it’s highly unpredictable whether or not he will have a second atg run.

I looked this up out of geniune curiosity lol.

Wasn't directed at you dude. I was addressing the thread and cbf scrolling up to quote someone. Royal you etc.

 

[Athlai]

Out of curiosity I looked up best averages in the three years between turning 20 and turning 23:

View attachment 29750

Mominul. Had so hoped he'd be a superstar

 

[harsh.ag]

Currently, Root > KW >> Kohli

Overall, Kohli > Root > KW but that seems all set to change fairly quickly

 

[Victor Ian]

I wonder how playing more tests helps batsmen become greater. If they get in good form, they score heaps of runs while in that form and ramp up their average. For someone who gets less opportunity, like Kane, he has to hold that form for years to equal what Joe has done in one. I know there is the flip side, but I feel the flip is reduced because you'll either slowly eat away your average or maintain it or get dropped if you are having a proper yellow patch.

 

[Howsie]

Playing two test match series all over the globe sure is hell would be harder then getting 4-5 test match series instead. Just off the top of my head has Williamson even played half a dozen 3 test match series overseas yet?

Australia twice, UAE, West Indies, India… Is that it? Funnily enough those are the series he’s generally done well in

 

[The Sean]

Yeah, Williamson has now played in 41 series, but in only eight of those has he played more than two Tests. And never more than three.

In those eight series where he's played three Tests, he has averaged: 42, 57, 53, 82, 52, 85, 77, 77.

 

[Bahnz]

Kane averages well into the 50s despite the slow start. Anderson averages 25, which is more equivalent to a 45-29 average.

I think a bowling average of 25 is probably as valuable as a batting average of 50. How many bowlers today have 100+ wickets at a sub-26 average? Rabada, Cummins, Jadeja, Bumrah, Hazlewood. Anybody else?

 

[Bahnz]

Playing two test match series all over the globe sure is hell would be harder then getting 4-5 test match series instead. Just off the top of my head has Williamson even played half a dozen 3 test match series overseas yet?

Australia twice, UAE, West Indies, India… Is that it? Funnily enough those are the series he’s generally done well in

It’s really only Australia once, given he broke down midway through the 2019 tour.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

I wonder how playing more tests helps batsmen become greater. If they get in good form, they score heaps of runs while in that form and ramp up their average. For someone who gets less opportunity, like Kane, he has to hold that form for years to equal what Joe has done in one. I know there is the flip side, but I feel the flip is reduced because you'll either slowly eat away your average or maintain it or get dropped if you are having a proper yellow patch.

On the 'flip side' issue, you're right that some lesser players will get dropped while out of form so their averages might not suffer so much for bad form as the extent to which they get boosted if they have a hot streak when Tests come thick and fast. But Root and Kohli aren't getting dropped during their lean spells as they're still worth a place in their sides at their worst. They'll get Test spammed in their purple patches and in their nadirs so it'll average out the same.

 

[The Sean]

Yeah, Williamson has now played in 41 series, but in only eight of those has he played more than two Tests. And never more than three.

In those eight series where he's played three Tests, he has averaged: 42, 57, 53, 82, 52, 85, 77, 77.

This was actually his entire career, home and away.

If just away, he has had five series where he has played three Tests (two against Pakistan, one each against India, Australia and West Indies), and averaged: 42, 82, 52, 85, 77.

 

[Victor Ian]

Can anyone get a average comparison for great players at 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th tests in a series. It makes sense that the more you acclimatise to a place the more likely you are to hit your big scores. Is such a breakdown possible?

 

[Groundking]

I think a bowling average of 25 is probably as valuable as a batting average of 50. How many bowlers today have 100+ wickets at a sub-26 average? Rabada, Cummins, Jadeja, Bumrah, Hazlewood. Anybody else?

Ashwin...

Min 100 wickets only 6 players have averaged less than Jimmy since the start of 2010.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[Flem274*]

Intuitively I suspect any trend would appear from the 4th test onwards, especially if a side or player really gets a steamroll going.

The muckiest I've seen Williamson (after he established himself at test level) was that 6 test run against Sri Lanka, England and Australia directly after the World Cup, culminating in an elbow injury. He did ton up against England but it was a real trash knock by his standards, and enabled by Joe Denly's terrible drop.

I'm not sure on Root, and Kohli's is pretty clearly January 2020 to now. I've never seen that wide fend so pronounced.

If anything, Root and WIlliamson's recent good form over the past 12-18 months goes to show how valuable a long break (through injury or the covid lockdowns) can be for a batsman. Kohli could probably do with a holiday.

 

[The Sean]

Ashwin...

Min 100 wickets only 6 players have averaged less than Jimmy since the start of 2010.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

I like this list. Any list where Ryan Harris ranks highly is a good one.

 

[Burner]

I'd still take Kohli over the other two overall. I think he's done more than the other two both at home and away.

But I think both Kane and maybe Root to an extent will end up with better numbers by the time they retire. I've felt that Kohli as a test batsman was always in a fight against his natural instincts and at his peak he was good enough to win that fight but with waning powers, he's losing more and more. Maybe I am talking out of my ass but you don't feel like that watching someone like Kane. Kohli always has to get a move on, get that bat to ball.

 

[Nikhil99.94]

*16... so adjusted to 80.

Then what would be jack hobbs average ,the guy played up to 46 and had war at the time of his peak and batted in decade of most difficult situation for batting ,from 1910s to till now.It’s-
Bradman

Hobbs
Smith
Others

Adjusted average for bradman?130?
For hobbs ?95?

 

[Coronis]

Honestly Hobbs woulda beat Gavaskar to 10K by 50 years averaging 10 runs higher.

 

[Nikhil99.94]

Honestly Hobbs woulda beat Gavaskar to 10K by 50 years averaging 10 runs higher.

Right,hobbs ‘the master’ is still the second best batsman after bradman ,smith may change that after some years though.He was truly the master of every shots in every type of wickets.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Then what would be jack hobbs average ,the guy played up to 46 and had war at the time of his peak and batted in decade of most difficult situation for batting ,from 1910s to till now.It’s-
Bradman

Hobbs
Smith
Others

Adjusted average for bradman?130?
For hobbs ?95?

Clearly @Prince EWS needs to provide updated standardised averages.