Is Moeen Ali the best ever test no-rounder?

[TheJediBrah]

per capita, the math works out. nz has elite genetics

Can't argue with this. How good NZ are at so many sports, best in the world at Rugby, top 6 or 7 in the olympics despite such a small population. Absolutely top tier genetics.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Best (or close to it) in the world in rowing, rugby, cricket, sailing, kayaking, netball. Not too bad

 

[AndrewB]

Can't argue with this. How good NZ are at so many sports, best in the world at Rugby, top 6 or 7 in the olympics despite such a small population. Absolutely top tier genetics.

Top 6 or 7 in the Olympics? Their only finish in the top 10 of the medals table was 8th at Los Angeles in 1984.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

NZ well up there in the motorsport world too, probably have the second most great drivers per capita, only behind Finland ofc

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Quality, not quantity. We were 13th on the table in Tokyo, but still clearly the best. Kiwis are the master race

 

[Teja.]

Martin Crowe had some 'interesting' comments' in the early 00s re: cricketing genetics within NZ saying that Maoris generally can't hack international cricket due to their lack of perseverance and inability to concentrate for a full day, let alone a test match.

Thankfully, many other NZ cricketers disagreed with him and said it's nothing to do with genetics and more due to the fact that cricket is a middle class sport and that the main reason it hadn't gripped the Maori is financial barriers/inequities at the grass-root level, the high cost of gear and registration as well as the long distances which have to be travelled for club games. He apologised subsequently.

The same argument has been going on in South Africa about the under representation of black cricketers in the SA side being due to the financial inequities faced by the black population and not because 'cricket is not a black man's game' as previously believed.

You'd think the thoughtful POV would be that financial arguments for those populations would apply even moreso to the populations of the Asian countries ravaged by colonialism wherein 90+% of the population makes less than 5$ a day but the cost of a decent level of cricket remains almost the same as the first world.

But hey, what do I know, maybe the Crowe POV is correct, inherent genetic factors dominate and asians are only decent at cricket due to the hordes of us playing it.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't know about any of that but I would have assumed it was because rugby is just way more popular with Maoris than cricket is, and possibly the same in South Africa re. soccer. As in they're just less interested in it.

 

[Teja.]

I don't know about any of that but I would have assumed it was because rugby is just way more popular with Maoris than cricket is, and possibly the same in South Africa re. soccer. As in they're just less interested in it.

That is true but the financial barriers of entering cricket at a young age due to it being a middle class sport is surely at least a part of why they are less interested in it?

Atleast that was the takeaway I got from the Maori and other cricketers who commented on Crowe-gate and I tend to believe them in this case.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

That was a very strange statement. Adam Parore had some the best concentration while keeping I've seen from a NZ cricketer. He's definitely in the middle class bracket though - trained as a lawyer I think, worked as a mortgage broker after retiring from cricket

 

[Fuller Pilch]

If you look at the last 20 years and NZ's most high profile players on a world stage there are 2 fast bowlers with Maori heritage (Bond and Boult), a Tauranga surfer (KW), a South Dunedin bogan from the wrong side of the tracks (BMac), a big hitting Samoan (Taylor), and an Italian slow left arm spinner (DV). They still manage to attract a variety of people to the game.

 

[Teja.]

If you look at the last 20 years and NZ's most high profile players on a world stage there are 2 fast bowlers with Maori heritage (Bond and Boult), a Tauranga surfer (KW), a South Dunedin bogan from the wrong side of the tracks (BMac), a big hitting Samoan (Taylor), and an Italian slow left arm spinner (DV). They still manage to attract a variety of people to the game.

Sure, I wasn’t disputing the diversity of the NZ team in either direction at all. I was just mentioning an incident from the (not so) recent past which brought out a divergence of views about why the Maori people were underrepresented in test cricket wherein people contesting Crowe’s remark felt financial and related inequities played a big role as opposed to genetics, which is very relevant to the current discussion.

 

[Jayro]

At one time a guy brainwashed a whole country calling them a superior race, now what is a superior race, the whole idea is a farce , you need to be educated enough and do some research before doling out tawdry thoughtless statements like this hahahaha "superior genetics of kiwis " It's still getting me laughing.

 

[sunilz]

I will believe in Kiwi's superior genetics once they win a Test or ODI series in IND . They haven't won one in their cricket history.

 

[Flem274*]

Martin Crowe had some 'interesting' comments' in the early 00s re: cricketing genetics within NZ saying that Maoris generally can't hack international cricket due to their lack of perseverance and inability to concentrate for a full day, let alone a test match.

Thankfully, many other NZ cricketers disagreed with him and said it's nothing to do with genetics and more due to the fact that cricket is a middle class sport and that the main reason it hadn't gripped the Maori is financial barriers/inequities at the grass-root level, the high cost of gear and registration as well as the long distances which have to be travelled for club games. He apologised subsequently.

The same argument has been going on in South Africa about the under representation of black cricketers in the SA side being due to the financial inequities faced by the black population and not because 'cricket is not a black man's game' as previously believed.

You'd think the thoughtful POV would be that financial arguments for those populations would apply even moreso to the populations of the Asian countries ravaged by colonialism wherein 90+% of the population makes less than 5$ a day but the cost of a decent level of cricket remains almost the same as the first world.

But hey, what do I know, maybe the Crowe POV is correct, inherent genetic factors dominate and asians are only decent at cricket due to the hordes of us playing it.

Maori and the Pacific is definitely an untapped well for NZC (and the ACB in Australia). Hopefully Crowe himself saw sense before the end since Taylor was his #1 student.

The relative lack of strong class based schooling system here has probably helped widen the player base relative to England and South Africa, but there are still class divides. Facilities and money is probably the major limitation here, papered over by the DIY approach to practicing sport in NZ (you might have a coach at school, but you go home and practice way more or during lunchtime sport).

I'm guessing India has a near opposite problem? Potential players for days (even if only 10% can think of playing, that's 100 million people), cricket has the largest share of interest but it's a task just to sift through the people playing with their friends and give the best opportunities?

At one time a guy brainwashed a whole country calling them a superior race, now what is a superior race, the whole idea is a farce , you need to be educated enough and do some research before doling out tawdry thoughtless statements like this hahahaha "superior genetics of kiwis " It's still getting me laughing.

This is absolutely what you should be taking away from my posts in this thread. You should take the post where I described myself as genetically underwhelming at best extremely seriously. I think you should report my post.

I will believe in Kiwi's superior genetics once they win a Test or ODI series in IND . They haven't won one in their cricket history.

You attempting to dine out on one test win in NZ in my lifetime will never not be funny. By far the most money, by far the largest player base, can't even beat one little South Pacific nation unless you're cowering at home. Sad.

 

[sunilz]

You attempting to dine out on one test win in NZ in my lifetime will never not be funny. By far the most money, by far the largest player base, can't even beat one little South Pacific nation unless you're cowering at home. Sad.

1 > 0 , master race .

 

[Starfighter]

When did this thread become so utterly dire?

 

[Prince EWS]

When did this thread become so utterly dire?

Is this the best ever dire thread?

 

[srbhkshk]

Is this the best ever dire thread?

Nah, per capita direness is too low.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

When did this thread become so utterly dire?

To be fair, as a tribute to a retiring player it wasn’t exactly rocking from the start.

 

[Bijed]

To be fair, as a tribute to a retiring player it wasn’t exactly rocking from the start.

Thought it was Perfectly Fine tbh