Indian Cricket Dhaba

[honestbharani]

who do we even have for limited overs captaincy? kohli and rohit are older. dhawan is old and not a prospect. rahul has never found a footing in the odi side. shreyas is in and out, shaw hasn't played much at all. do we just intend to stick it on pant after rohit?

Rahul actually has been awesome as an ODI middle order batsman and is definitely the guy being groomed for LO captaincy. If this report is true, and we all know sunilz puts blind bias and hatred above reality, I fully expect Rahul to be named long term vice-captain.

 

[Shri]

i hope ashwin becomes test captain ala kumble

 

[cnerd123]

Good decision by Virat.

why do you think it was his decision?

 

[Daemon]

why do you think it was his decision?

Well the article says so.

There's a not insignificant chance of him being eased out though of course.

 

[honestbharani]

Well the article says so.

There's a not insignificant chance of him being eased out though of course.

I honestly dont think he would have ever been removed. Its as much Virat's decision as Sachin's was to quit captaincy IMO.

 

[cnerd123]

lol that article makes it sounds like it was entirely Virat's call

ridiculous if true. His failings as a white ball captain have been evident to everyone with a working pair of eyes. He's not a great Test captain either, but that's more forgiving as the team has delivered results.

part of the failure of the white ball sides has been poor talent identification and selection as well. Don't think simply replace Virat would solve that problem, but it's a start.

 

[honestbharani]

lol that article makes it sounds like it was entirely Virat's call

ridiculous if true. His failings as a white ball captain have been evident to everyone with a working pair of eyes. He's not a great Test captain either, but that's more forgiving as the team has delivered results.

part of the failure of the white ball sides has been poor talent identification and selection as well. Don't think simply replace Virat would solve that problem, but it's a start.

His very weaknesses as a captain are also his strengths. He has ridiculous notions on cricket that he will never move away from, such as his fast bowling and wrist spin fetish. At the same time, he is one of the main reasons we have the kind of fast bowling strength and depth we do around the national squad. I think he should quit captaincy altogether, not because he is a poor captain as such (he is definitely a better test captain than LO though) but because I think every captain has a shelf life and it looks like he has reached his and its been obvious it has started to impact his batting output.

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah Rohit is on record saying his entire focus is on winning the 2023 WC. Hope India succeed under him.

 

[honestbharani]

Rohit Sharma could be white-ball skipper after T20 World Cup | Cricket News - Times of India

Cricket News: Virat Kohli, who currently leads the team across all formats and is India’s most successful captain ever, is learned to have taken the call to share l

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

The article for those who are interested.


Also a quote from the article -

We realise spin-masters will be at work, giving their own twists to these developments.

The BCCI and ToI know of sunilz...

 

[cnerd123]

At the same time, he is one of the main reasons we have the kind of fast bowling strength and depth we do around the national squad.

yea let's just ignore the decades long investment into developing fast bowlers from the BCCI and various state and regional associations, not to mention all the coaches who've spent all this time training and developing fast bowlers, talent scouts who've identified them, and the various levels of selectors who have given them opportunities and grow throughout the various levels of cricket.

Kohli's not the 'main' reason for this by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[honestbharani]

yea let's just ignore the decades long investment into developing fast bowlers from the BCCI and various state and regional associations, not to mention all the coaches who've spent all this time training and developing fast bowlers, talent scouts who've identified them, and the various levels of selectors who have given them opportunities and grow throughout the various levels of cricket.

Kohli's not the 'main' reason for this by any stretch of the imagination.

I said the national squad. And again, if you cant see the obvious impact he has had, I really cant say much. The fitness and backing of fast bowling have been his biggest things. WE have had decades of investment before too, why did they not yield results under Dhoni, for instance? I am almost sure people like Shami and Siraj would have gone the Munaf and Sreesanth way if not for Virat.

 

[cnerd123]

Fitness standards I'll give you, but Kohli did not teach any of our current quicks how to bowl. Kohli didn't even discover any of them. There are so many people involved in the development of every one of our quicks, right back to their first coaches, their club captains, their Ranji captains, even those involved with the Indian A setups and places like the MRF academy and the NCA. Heck even the IPL has had a massive massive role in this, and note that Kohli's franchise hasn't actually discovered any of these guys.

I'd give guys like Bharat Arun so much more credit than Kohli. Kohli was handed nearly finish products to play with, to say he's the 'main factor' when most of our quicks began their career before he was even playing for India is incredibly disrespectful to all the people involved with their development.

India hasn't produced world class quicks before due to various structural issues, and these have been steadily improving over the years. The work started well before Kohli even started playing professionally. Guys like Pathan, Munaf etc were the first generation of this focus on building proper quick bowlers, and Kohli's lucky he's risen to the captaincy just at the time when the these efforts are starting to bear fruit.

 

[sunilz]

You can't give credit of Bumrah and Siraj to Kohli.

 

[honestbharani]

You can't give credit of Bumrah and Siraj to Kohli.

BUmrah was literally kept away from FC cricket but worked on red ball skills in the team set up. That is very much a Shaz Virat decision. And Siraj has been awesome for a while but I thnk the way Virat handled him in the debut days at both RCB and India white ball matters.

 

[honestbharani]

India hasn't produced world class quicks before due to various structural issues, and these have been steadily improving over the years. The work started well before Kohli even started playing professionally. Guys like Pathan, Munaf etc were the first generation of this focus on building proper quick bowlers, and Kohli's lucky he's risen to the captaincy just at the time when the these efforts are starting to bear fruit.

Not at all. The MRF pace foundation has been around from the 80s, recount Sachin going there to be a fast bowler. Munaf and Irfan were not the first generation speedsters coz we had Srinath before that and many others who were supposed to be "fast" in the domestic circuit who could not claim wickets. Munaf and Sreesanth to me were just as talented as Shami and Siraj are today but fell by the wayside coz of the way they themselves and others handled them. That is a clear difference I see with Virat. Ishant under Virat has been a revelation. Umesh and Shami have become matchwinners at home even though we did not need more of them for home conditions. Bumrah's was a very meticulous plan that was excellently executed.

I am not saying the coaches do not deserve credit but if every thing that goes wrong is blamed on the captain, then everything that went right should be credited to the captain too. Can't have it both ways, except for sunilz type biased hateful trolls.

 

[Shri]

he made siraj play the 4th test on the trot although he looked gassed and over worked in the 3rd

not to mention his constant over use of bumrah as well

he does his best to break fast bowlers

thankfully the current crop seem to train with great coaches and seem to have put in the work to get fitter than usual so they are hanging on despite koach's idiocy

i expect our fast bowling resources to improve further with time and hopefully we also get captains who know how to use fast bowlers better

also btw, the tactics in australia earlier this year were so much better than the ones in england where we waited for things to happen at times instead of having specific game plans to specific players unlike in aus

 

[srbhkshk]

Lmao, he sure was handed finished products in early 10s Ishant , Yadav and Shami - they were absolute trash at that point of time.
Everyone hated him and bewda for playing Bumrah and Shardul during their debuts.

Not giving him credit for the pace bowling culture is ridiculous.

 

[Nintendo]

Lmao, he sure was handed finished products in early 10s Ishant , Yadav and Shami - they were absolute trash at that point of time.
Everyone hated him and bewda for playing Bumrah and Shardul during their debuts.

Not giving him credit for the pace bowling culture is ridiculous.

Ishant's massive improvments have been put down to his time under gillespie in the county circuit, no? Don't have too much of an idea about yadav or shami. Would it be more fair to say that koach gave these guys chances, but didn't outright develop them into the talents they where, and that kohli was far from the only person responsible for this?

 

[cnerd123]

Lmao, he sure was handed finished products in early 10s Ishant , Yadav and Shami - they were absolute trash at that point of time.
Everyone hated him and bewda for playing Bumrah and Shardul during their debuts.

Not giving him credit for the pace bowling culture is ridiculous.

by the time you're playing Test cricket you're more or less the finished product. They've definitely improved in the National set up, but they had all the raw ingredients by the time they were picked.

By all means credit Kohli for backing the quicks and sticking with them through their development phase, but he's no way near the 'main factor'. He didn't scout these guys as kids, didn't teach them how to bowl fast, didn't pick them through various age group and domestic cricket tournaments. He did not have a role in the setup of various pace academies, A tours, or the improvement of domestic pitches and schedules to better suit the development quick bowlers. He may have established a high fitness culture, but he is not the physio, he is not setting S&C programs for these guys, and he is not managing their workloads.

You're literally looking at the tip of the iceberg when it comes to producing the fast bowling talent we have now. Kohli insisting on a pace-heavy attack and backing them is great, but the talent he has at his disposal is only possible thanks to the structural changes in Indian cricket that have come about in the last 3 decades, which is thanks to the work of thousands of individuals at all levels. Kohli is not the 'main factor'.

If anything, the IPL is the main factor. Franchises realised top quality pace talent was essential to winning T20 trophies, and put in a lot of legwork themselves to identify, recruit and develop talented locals so they wouldn't have to rely on foreign players. The IPL has accelerated the improvement of our pace bowling IMO, and it's where we found players like Bumrah and Siraj.

 

[srbhkshk]

Ishant's massive improvments have been put down to his time under gillespie in the county circuit, no? Don't have too much of an idea about yadav or shami. Would it be more fair to say that koach gave these guys chances, but didn't outright develop them into the talents they where, and that kohli was far from the only person responsible for this?

I mean he sure didn't teach them to bowl, but he uses the pacers to attack and take wickets, not to bowl some random trash leg stump line to keep the runs down.

No way any other Indian captain goes ahead and plays a 4 man pace attack when Ashwin is available for selection, it's a beyond stupid decision, but it's also the decisions of a man who respects and trusts his pacers.