The Endgame of Kohli

[honestbharani]

What

Ita how I interpreted that man. Not saying it is right or anything. It is what I meant, that is all, even if I worded it poorly.

 

[Burner]

I think despite all his claims of blocking out the noise, Kohli is one of those people that takes every criticism personally. I am sure that the next time he scores a century, he's going to be out there with the shushing gestures as though answering his critics. I like him though and I don't think India need him as a skipper to be a dominant side either, but one thing I can say for uncertain is that he's the main architect of India's fast bowling arsenal. If you were wondering why he was giving a spell to Umesh in India when Ashwin and Jadeja where going on a rampage, I guess now we have the answer.

 

[honestbharani]

I think despite all his claims of blocking out the noise, Kohli is one of those people that takes every criticism personally. I am sure that the next time he scores a century, he's going to be out there with the shushing gestures as though answering his critics. I like him though and I don't think India need him as a skipper to be a dominant side either, but one thing I can say for uncertain is that he's the main architect of India's fast bowling arsenal. If you were wondering why he was giving a spell to Umesh in India when Ashwin and Jadeja where going on a rampage, I guess now we have the answer.

Yeah its an obvious fast bowling bias. Notice how he wont do the same on a greentop with the spinners to get "them into the game". In a way, it speaks of how good Ash and Jaddu are that he can basically take a risk like that knowing if it goes wrong, he has them to fall back on.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah arrogant isn’t the right word. He’s childish.

It makes me like him more, because it adds so much colour and narrative tension to the game. Enjoying watching sport is about losing enough perspective to feel like it really matters, and that’s much easier when the participants themselves seem to have zero sense of perspective. But even though I like him for it, it also makes me want him to lose.

I agree with this. I like Virat - he's great theatre for sport. When he used to dine out on Australia and wind them up, that was brilliant. But now that he's not scoring runs, and India haven't won tournaments, he looks a bit average. And opens himself up to this thread. Which is all good, we all have different perspectives on it.

 

[CricAddict]

Kohli is like Hansie Cronje. Great win-loss record and one of the most successful captains but yet to win a significant tournament. No ICC trophy wins and not even an IPL win.

Captained India to a under-19 world cup win though.

 

[silentstriker]

But like who actually cares. At the end of his career, would anyone who is into cricket history and is a serious fan even remember that he didn't have an IPL win?

 

[honestbharani]

I think it is an indictment of what happens when he runs the entire show. He has good ideas and he has bad ideas but he is so bull headedly committed to them, to a fault, that its never a good idea to bet everything on him. You need others around who can check-and-balance his powers within the set up. Its why MI do well IMO. Rohit is good but but there are voices there in that dressing room that can overrule him. I mean, they have what, like 12 scouts, who are all pretty much coaches in their own right.

Other than that, trophies are won by teams. A different captain does not guarantee squat with this side.

 

[SteveNZ]

I wish Kane was a touch more evil tbh. Not in a try hard way like Kohli or the sookiness of Smith's captaincy stint, but in the way where Wagner and Jamieson aren't allowed to eat unless they lose their match fees.

Fleming's side shot itself in the foot a lot with some of their internal stuff but I do think Cairns, Nash, Parore and Richardson being highly competitive, overly intense pricks was a net positive for the team performance.

Really? I don't see what you'd add by Kane being more ruthless personally. I think our greatest asset is how level-headed everyone is, potentially apart from Jamieson and Wagner who do what they do by being hot heads - but not to the point of being out of control (mostly).

The Fleming sides you describe were inconsistent as hell because of those egos, the intense nature of them etc.

 

[Daemon]

Really? I don't see what you'd add by Kane being more ruthless personally.

May have kicked up a fuss during the overthrow saga and put pressure on the umps making them realise it should've been a 5 not 6

 

[Daemon]

You're right in that I don't see this NZ side get any better by him being more aggressive in nature tbf. They're the no.2 side in the world after all.

 

[sunilz]

But like who actually cares. At the end of his career, would anyone who is into cricket history and is a serious fan even remember that he didn't have an IPL win?

People bring up his IPL record because he hasn't won any major knockout tournaments in his career . If he wins ICC tournament , people will stop mentioning his IPL record.

 

[honestbharani]

Really? I don't see what you'd add by Kane being more ruthless personally. I think our greatest asset is how level-headed everyone is, potentially apart from Jamieson and Wagner who do what they do by being hot heads - but not to the point of being out of control (mostly).

The Fleming sides you describe were inconsistent as hell because of those egos, the intense nature of them etc.

I dunno if KJ will be able to keep it together for long enough but KW seems the kind of guy who will also let certain people be themselves and not force everyone to play act nice like Baz McCullum seemed to be doing. As long as it does not go over the top. So I feel KW is like a perfect captain for this NZ side and actually for most sides.

Still unsure about how things went in SRH though. He was awesome in 2018 but it looked pretty bad this year. It may have been the management more than him though.

 

[SteveNZ]

May have kicked up a fuss during the overthrow saga and put pressure on the umps making them realise it should've been a 5 not 6

Fair point, although did he actually know that rule? I didn't. And the guy who was employed to know that rule, didn't either. Kane might be a nice guy, but I don't think he's a jellyfish either. If he knew the rule, he'd have surely been taking it up with the umpire.

 

[SteveNZ]

I dunno if KJ will be able to keep it together for long enough but KW seems the kind of guy who will also let certain people be themselves and not force everyone to play act nice like Baz McCullum seemed to be doing. As long as it does not go over the top. So I feel KW is like a perfect captain for this NZ side and actually for most sides.

Still unsure about how things went in SRH though. He was awesome in 2018 but it looked pretty bad this year. It may have been the management more than him though.

Nah, I'm not 100% sure on KJ either. Time will tell. I'm not saying he will, just that it's far too early to know how he's going to cope with expectation and playing around the world.

Kane is just a perfect leader in the sense he allows people to be who they are and allows them to contribute in their own way. He also brings a calm consistency which perfects mirrors how we've been able to play cricket. Baz was a massive catalyst for change in NZ cricket too, and even he said it was the right time to hand over to someone who could take the side to the next level.

 

[Daemon]

Fair point, although did he actually know that rule? I didn't. And the guy who was employed to know that rule, didn't either. Kane might be a nice guy, but I don't think he's a jellyfish either. If he knew the rule, he'd have surely been taking it up with the umpire.

Oh I don’t think anyone knew the rule, but he’d have made the umpires think twice before awarding runs and it may have been picked up that way. All conjecture ofc.

 

[Flem274*]

Its not about who is right but about who is psycho enough to test the umpires spine. See Waugh and Ponting.

This is something Kohli has tried to change in Indian cricket to his credit. Less "i own the ball, so i am right" and more "i am right"

 

[Burgey]

Yeah, exactly how I felt about it. I don't want that to muddy the fact that he is a wonderful batsman and has done a lot for Indian cricket. But like you, I find it weird how much he seems to require extrinsic motivation to do what he does. I don't see that in Kane Williamson. I don't see it in Steve Smith. I don't see it in Joe Root. They score runs and do well for the joy it brings them, not to prove others wrong.

Does it matter what motivates you, as long as it pushes you to succeed?

 

[Burgey]

In general I would always want Ashwin in the side.

That said, who to drop for him is a rather hard problem to solve for the team management -

Bumrah - No.
Siraj - You will after the match, but that's hindsight thinking, he's been good for india for a fair amount of time now and dropping a youngster on a bad match or two is questionable tstl.
Shardul - pre match he might have been the most obvious - but Virat was proven right in selecting him.
Yadav - maaaybe, but he did not do bad in the game and had some important wickets.
Jadeja - He is really playing as a batting all-rounder here, hard to say again.
Rahane - Actually seems like the one guy who could be dropped, but that's just wishful thinking and makes no sense in terms of team balance.

We do really have a problem of plenty going on in the bowling department right now, I still want Ashwin to play but **** me it'd be a torturous decision to make.

I really like Siraj and think he's a great talent, but I was surprised he kept his spot over more established players once the four quicks thing started to look a bit extravagant.

 

[SteveNZ]

Does it matter what motivates you, as long as it pushes you to succeed?

Yep, if it isn't the best or most consistent path to success.

Something's not right, given he hasn't scored an international ton for nigh on 2 years. Is that technique, or is it where his focus is?

 

[Noumenon]

Kohli is an overindulged mummy's boy from west delhi with the personality of a candy wrapper. To his credit, he's midwitted enough to understand the importance of droning the right words so you hear words like templates, team culture, outside noise, process and so on and so forth. Outside of the cricket field, his handlers have optimized him into the perfect marketable product where tropes about ''new India'' is forcefully identified with him.

All viscerally repugnant to me personally.