Where do you stand on Steve Waugh vs Shane Warne debate (as people)

[Teja.]

“During the first three Tests, at various times some of the bowlers came to me, grumbling about Tugga’s captaincy and field placements and stuff. I said I was backing him to the hilt and if they had a problem with the captain they should go see him direct. Perhaps because of this, I was deeply disappointed that he didn’t back me in return,” he said.

Leaving aside any preconceived notions about the players and even fully trusting Warne's narration of events, the above quoted first 3 sentences of Warne's quote in the OP is enough to confirm that Warne is the idiot in this situation, surely?

"I refused the opportunity to bitch about the captain with other players so it's legitimate for me to expect that he will not drop me from the cricket team based on my performance" is a terrible way to think about sport captaincy.

I don't think Steve Waugh is some saint either and some of those personal comments he supposedly made to Warne seem unprofessional as well but Warne's perspective towards dropgate seems highly delusional.

 

[Spikey]

but it happens all the time. Look at late career Sachin or Dhoni. Or even Mark Taylor a year earlier in that side.

And Warne was only bad over a couple of tests. If we're giving that short a rope to ATG players Smith should have been dropped for the third test last summer against India as he only got 10 runs in his first 4 digs of that series. Imagine the backlash to that decision

Apples and oranges. It's so much easier to know a bowler isn't currently up for it. You get 100 to 200 balls to look horrid.

 

[Arachnodouche]

I'm thinking, if you're Australian and if Shane Warne says he's good to bowl and can turn it around, you take him at his word, shaky though it may be in other situations, because cricket is the one thing he's always been 100% genuine about.

 

[subshakerz]

I'm thinking, if you're Australian and if Shane Warne says he's good to bowl and can turn it around, you take him at his word, shaky though it may be in other situations, because cricket is the one thing he's always been 100% genuine about.

If he was genuine he shouldnt have played in that series in the first place.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't think Steve Waugh is some saint either and some of those personal comments he supposedly made to Warne seem unprofessional as well but Warne's perspective towards dropgate seems highly delusional.

If you're a professional sportsman (yes I know, cricket, but still) you should be fair game to be called a fat **** to your face if the shoe fits

 

[Camo999]

Dunno quite where I stand on this but if he was gonna drop Warne, he really should also have dropped Healy who I recall seemed to be really struggling by then, and brought in Gilchrist.

 

[subshakerz]

If you're a professional sportsman (yes I know, cricket, but still) you should be fair game to be called a fat **** to your face if the shoe fits

The fact that Waugh chooses not to respond back to Warne's petty comments speaks well of him IMO.

 

[Teja.]

If you're a professional sportsman (yes I know, cricket, but still) you should be fair game to be called a fat **** to your face if the shoe fits

was referring to “spend more time deciding what sort of person I wanted to be in my life, how to conduct myself”

 

[TheJediBrah]

was referring to “spend more time deciding what sort of person I wanted to be in my life, how to conduct myself”

haha yeah that's pretty brutal

but knowing what we do of Warney it's probably more than reasonable

 

[bagapath]

What a tough call to take! Made Steve Waugh a truly remarkable leader!!!

 

[Burgey]

but it happens all the time. Look at late career Sachin or Dhoni. Or even Mark Taylor a year earlier in that side.

And Warne was only bad over a couple of tests. If we're giving that short a rope to ATG players Smith should have been dropped for the third test last summer against India as he only got 10 runs in his first 4 digs of that series. Imagine the backlash to that decision

If Healy takes that catch off Lara this isn't an issue though, because Aus can't lose the series, Waugh feels secure in his new captaincy, Warne gets the fourth test because at worst the trophy is retained and he spends his time in comms saying what a legend Tugga is and how great a skipper and batsman he was.

The Smith analogy isn't really that apt, though I get your point, because there wasn't another middle order player around doing that well who could perform at remotely like his level, whereas MacGill was already in the side and bowling better than Warne was at that point in time.

This feud is interesting though, because it's the first of what's become the almost legendary Warne grudge-holding phenomenon. It's amazing how someone so good at what he did and who's pulled that many women can be so insecure at heart.

 

[Nintendo]

but it happens all the time. Look at late career Sachin or Dhoni. Or even Mark Taylor a year earlier in that side.

And Warne was only bad over a couple of tests. If we're giving that short a rope to ATG players Smith should have been dropped for the third test last summer against India as he only got 10 runs in his first 4 digs of that series. Imagine the backlash to that decision

I can see where your coming from, but the smith example just isn't right. Smith made 2 of the fastest tons by an aussie in odi's ever back to back just before that test series, was never a question of him being in bad nick. I wasn't around when this waugh warne stuff was going down and can't be ****ed looking at the stats, but I would assume that warne's numbers wouldn't have been great around that period based on the injury.

 

[Nintendo]

If Healy takes that catch off Lara this isn't an issue though, because Aus can't lose the series, Waugh feels secure in his new captaincy, Warne gets the fourth test because at worst the trophy is retained and he spends his time in comms saying what a legend Tugga is and how great a skipper and batsman he was.

The Smith analogy isn't really that apt, though I get your point, because there wasn't another middle order player around doing that well who could perform at remotely like his level, whereas MacGill was already in the side and bowling better than Warne was at that point in time.

This feud is interesting though, because it's the first of what's become the almost legendary Warne grudge-holding phenomenon. It's amazing how someone so good at what he did and who's pulled that many women can be so insecure at heart.

Not hard to pull chicks when your insecure at heart, look at Neil Strauss around the time of the game. Maintaining a meaningful relationship is the real hard part, there's a reason warne's marriages have never lasted.

 

[Flem274*]

He probably put so much into both because hes such a melt

 

[Furball]

Warne said he found Waugh to be “niggling” after taking over as captain. “...there was more to it than my performances - I think it was jealousy. He started to niggle away, telling me to look at my diet and spend more time deciding what sort of person I wanted to be in my life, how to conduct myself - that sort of stuff. I said, ‘Mate - worry about yourself’,” he wrote.

I don't get what's controversial about this. 'Model professionalism' isn't very high on the list of things that come to mind about Shane Warne.