Where do you stand on Steve Waugh vs Shane Warne debate (as people)

[mr_mister]

Now I know the knee jerk reaction is to call Shane Warne a baby etc, and the fact that he's still holding onto beef from 20 years ago is a blackmark against him -

however i've just a read little more into the whole 'dropgate' from the '99 Windies series, and I found this interesting and illuminating. Whether it's true or not is anyone's guess, but while Warne is a bit immature, I can believe he's telling the truth here


“During the first three Tests, at various times some of the bowlers came to me, grumbling about Tugga’s captaincy and field placements and stuff. I said I was backing him to the hilt and if they had a problem with the captain they should go see him direct. Perhaps because of this, I was deeply disappointed that he didn’t back me in return,” he said.

Warne said he found Waugh to be “niggling” after taking over as captain. “...there was more to it than my performances - I think it was jealousy. He started to niggle away, telling me to look at my diet and spend more time deciding what sort of person I wanted to be in my life, how to conduct myself - that sort of stuff. I said, ‘Mate - worry about yourself’,” he wrote.

I know if the first paragraph is true and it was me it would irk me to no end. feeling like you're defending someone who doesn't have your back in return is a horrible feeling of betrayal and i've been there. and it's not like Warne deserved to be retained just for those reasons. He was Shane Warne and had been a match winner for nearly the whole decade, you don't normally drop ATGs after a couple of bad performances. And it was only a couple, he had only played 4 tests since his comeback from injury. was barely needed in the first couple ( they were Macgill's 12fer in Sydney and Windies being skittled for 50 by the pacers of the 1st test where he barely bowled)

The second paragraph, well i'm split 50-50. A professional cricketer probably shouldn't be overweight but a leggie who fields at slip can probably get away with it when he's still winning matches left and right. The personal stuff does make Waugh seem a bit of an old fuddy duddy, if true. I've long loved Steve Waugh as a cricketer, read all his biographies, but I think i'd get along with Warnie more as a person in some ways.


Anyway, what are CW's thoughts?

 

[Bijed]

The second paragraph, well i'm split 50-50. A professional cricketer probably shouldn't be overweight but a leggie who fields at slip can probably get away with it when he's still winning matches left and right. The personal stuff does make Waugh seem a bit of an old fuddy duddy, if true. I've long loved Steve Waugh as a cricketer, read all his biographies, but I think i'd get along with Warnie more as a person in some ways.

They definitely can, but equally your best, most experienced long-standing players really should be upholding standards in every aspect of their game imo.

It's one of those things where I'm not really sure where I'd draw the line in practice. It's probably silly to make a massive issue out of one player being lax with their fitness, but what if your equally undroppable batting core of say 3 or 4 players are all/all become unfit and lazy fielders? Obviously you don't drop them all, but you can't really let it slide, then what if they just refuse to do anything about it?

 

[mr_mister]

yeah was gonna say let their runs do the talking, but you're right you might end up with a bunch of Inzys(not sure how good/bad he was in the field, i'm assuming he was pretty useless) so maybe youre right!

 

[subshakerz]

So Warne didnt backbite on Waugh, does that mean Waugh shouldnt have dropped him? Why?

Waugh made clear that he felt Warne had been brought back from injury too quickly and wasn't up for playing, especially with Lara on fire. And Australia won the next test, so he was vindicated.

I dunno, Warne's quotes come across as petty. Like choosing to spread dirt amount relatively minor stuff in public just because his ego couldn't take getting dropped.

Waugh, to his credit, has never fired back at Warne. That tells me a lot. Even though I don't really rate Waugh as captain, he seems like a decent bloke.

 

[mr_mister]

the paragraphs are from his biography i believe, where you've got free reign to bring up **** from the past (Waugh's had some gossip too, but probably less than Warnies, who's I haven't read)

and I guess it's pretty unprecedented that ATGs get dropped after a couple of bad performances right? Usually they rightly get a longer rope

 

[mr_mister]

Waugh does seem a decent bloke in a lot of ways, probably a better person than Warne overall, but he does have some traits i'm not too fond of. he tried to set a curfew at the at the start of his captaincy and put a wives and girlfriends ban on his players before Tom Moody politely told him it was a stupid idea during the '99 WC. He respected Moody and changed his mind on it, but it's a dumb thing to have had in place in the first place. Baby's first bit of power

 

[subshakerz]

Waugh does seem a decent bloke in a lot of ways, probably a better person than Warne overall, but he does have some traits i'm not too fond of. he tried to set a curfew at the at the start of his captaincy and put a wives and girlfriends ban on his players before Tom Moody politely told him it was a stupid idea during the '99 WC. He respected Moody and changed his mind on it, but it's a dumb thing to have had in place in the first place. Baby's first bit of power

Yeah that is more to do with Waugh as a captain, and I dont rate him as highly.

 

[honestbharani]

Both are shits. But Waugh was a **** who could make friends.

 

[mr_mister]

Well it's tied to some of the criticism's of Warne's personal life I'm sure. I bet if Warne had told him it was stupid idea he'd have been told to go jump

 

[mr_mister]

Both are ****s. But Waugh was a **** who could make friends.

there was a divide in the dressing room into the julios and nerds. Bit of a joke re the names but I'm sure Warnie got along well with some of the julios. Him and Mark Waugh were close mates I believe

 

[subshakerz]

the paragraphs are from his biography i believe, where you've got free reign to bring up **** from the past (Waugh's had some gossip too, but probably less than Warnies, who's I haven't read)

and I guess it's pretty unprecedented that ATGs get dropped after a couple of bad performances right? Usually they rightly get a longer rope

Well, Warne was bowling the worst in his entire career. And then Colin Miller who replaced him the next test performed very well and Australia retained the trophy. So Warne whining about it is pathetic frankly.

If anything, that increases my respect for Waugh. It takes guts to drop a big name bowler in your first series as captain. And it was the right call. I recall Imran Khan dropping his cousin Majid who never spoke to him again.

 

[sledger]

honestly who would trust a word out of Shane Warne's mouth?

 

[mr_mister]

honestly who would trust a word out of Shane Warne's mouth?

You can be immature and a buffoon while still being an honest person right?

 

[sledger]

You can be immature and a buffoon while still being an honest person right?

Yeah and you can also be immature and a buffoon while being Shane Warne

 

[Starfighter]

Shane Waugh and Steve Warne.

I dislike Warne generally but I do like his dislike of Waugh's baggy green worship.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Warne is as unreliable a narrator as you can get. His comments here show a complete inability to take responsibility. Textbook narcissism. "He doesn't like what I'm doing so he must be jealous"

 

[NZTailender]

I know if the first paragraph is true and it was me it would irk me to no end. feeling like you're defending someone who doesn't have your back in return is a horrible feeling of betrayal and i've been there.

Nah disagree. Warne's focus here is on himself and how he views relationships. Just because you back your captain doesn't mean you're immune from being dropped based on performances.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I'd have a lot more time for Waugh if he had been 'accidentally' filmed getting his bat sucked by a couple of hookers

 

[Chubb]

Personally think Waugh has an odd personality and is a bit of a hypocrite but Warne is a truly unpleasant individual.

 

[Line and Length]

I'd rather have a beer and a laugh with Warnie, but if I was after a deeper conversation it would be Waugh.

Neither likely to occur because they probably wouldn't be bothered with an old 'nobody'.