Imran Khan vs Curtley Ambrose

[TheJediBrah]

Ambrose didn’t have the subtle variation of some fast bowlers, but I’m a little surprised to see him described as as a line and length corridor bowler relying on batsman making mistakes.

Baffling that anyone here could think any great fast bowler could be described that way tbh

 

[subshakerz]

Ambrose didn’t have the subtle variation of some fast bowlers, but I’m a little surprised to see him described as as a line and length corridor bowler relying on batsman making mistakes.

Come on, Ambrose was far more than that.

By saying 'one dimensional' I just meant he his success didnt rely largely on variety and a bag of tricks compared to other ATGs, but brutal accuracy, height and pace. Was not meant to diminish him.

 

[Noumenon]

Groundhog day. Same comparisons, same lines, and oddly enough, same enthusiasm.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Come on, Ambrose was far more than that.

By saying 'one dimensional' I just meant he his success didnt rely largely on variety and a bag of tricks compared to other ATGs, but brutal accuracy, height and pace. Was not meant to diminish him.

Your exact words were "that was basically Ambrose MO his career, keep it at a particular length in the corridor and wait for the batsman to bite."
He clearly wasn't that at all, but that's exactly what you said.

 

[Bolo.]

It would be lovely if people could stop interpretting every minor criticisim of a player in absolute terms, and feeling the need to take offence to it.

Was Ambrose the devil spawn given the right conditions and time? Yep, even compared to most ATGs.

Did he turn into a line and length merchant at other times, who relialed on ppl making mistakes... yep. One of his skills was drying up runs when the going wasnt good.

He both obliterated bats, and at other times bored them out, with the very big disclaimer on boring them out that it is only in relation to ATGs that we are talking about.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

It would be lovely if people could stop interpretting every minor criticisim of a player in absolute terms, and feeling the need to take offence to it.

That's not what's happening. Someone makes a point and others make comments on it and generate discussion. That's what forums are for.

 

[Bolo.]

That's not what's happening. Someone makes a point and others make comments on it and generate discussion. That's what forums are for.

Yip, someone made a comment about the limitations ambrose had within the context of comparison to other ATGs. People are piling onto it. He wasnt, say, steyn or wasim, within this specific context. He isnt clearly the GOAT. We can discuss his weaknesses, without pretending the suggestion that exinstence of tiny gaps in his record make him Sami or somethiing.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Yip, someone made a comment about the limitations ambrose had within the context of comparison to other ATGs. People are piling onto it. He wasnt, say, steyn or wasim, within this specific context. He isnt clearly the GOAT. We can discuss his weaknesses, without pretending the suggestion that exinstence of tiny gaps in his record make him Sami or somethiing.

Some people think he is the GOAT. But I'd hate to take what you said out of context so I'll leave it there.

 

[Bolo.]

Some people think he is the GOAT. But I'd hate to take what you said out of context so I'll leave it there.

Fair enough. He is certainly up there.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yip, someone made a comment about the limitations ambrose had within the context of comparison to other ATGs. People are piling onto it. He wasnt, say, steyn or wasim, within this specific context. He isnt clearly the GOAT. We can discuss his weaknesses, without pretending the suggestion that exinstence of tiny gaps in his record make him Sami or somethiing.

Ambrose > Steyn or Wasim

 

[Slifer]

Ambrose > Steyn or Wasim

Idk about Steyn but yeah I would say he was better than Wasim. Although he wasn't as skilled as either.

 

[Bolo.]

Ambrose > Steyn or Wasim

Very justtifiable opinion. But we are not talking about overall bowling quality, just when things dont theorticqlly favour the bowlers. By atg standards, especially late in career, he was mostly a line and length, wait for mistakes bowler when conditions werent favourable.

It isnt much of an an indicement. Most of the top bowlers had the sense to do so. He is top 5 for me, and Of my top 5, Mcgrath very much, and even steyn (a crazy wicket hunter) plenty late career. Never saw much of marshall and never saw hadlee at all, but i assume hadlee at least did the same.

 

[subshakerz]

It would be lovely if people could stop interpretting every minor criticisim of a player in absolute terms, and feeling the need to take offence to it.

Was Ambrose the devil spawn given the right conditions and time? Yep, even compared to most ATGs.

Did he turn into a line and length merchant at other times, who relialed on ppl making mistakes... yep. One of his skills was drying up runs when the going wasnt good.

He both obliterated bats, and at other times bored them out, with the very big disclaimer on boring them out that it is only in relation to ATGs that we are talking about.

Yes, thank you, that was precisely my point. We are comparing two ATGs, so we are looking at possible minor faults to make a distinction.

My point was that Ambrose may have had an issue with his particular style of corridor bowling that would have likely meant he would not have been as penetrative on subcontinent wickets. Of course, we will never know for sure since he only played 6 tests.

I gave the example of that 1997 Pakistan series because that was his worst series as a bowler whereas Wasim and Walsh were able to adapt and thrive.

I would definitely pick Imran over Ambrose if it was a flat wicket.

 

[Slifer]

Yes, thank you, that was precisely my point. We are comparing two ATGs, so we are looking at possible minor faults to make a distinction.

My point was that Ambrose may have had an issue with his particular style of corridor bowling that would have likely meant he would not have been as penetrative on subcontinent wickets. Of course, we will never know for sure since he only played 6 tests.

I
the example of that 1997 Pakistan series because that was his worst series as a bowler whereas Wasim and Walsh were able to adapt and thrive.

I would definitely pick Imran over Ambrose if it was a flat wicket.

See there in is the problem, you're using one series to make a point which imo isn't really valid. Why? Because that wasn't the only series he played in Pakistan (as you already pointed out). He was outstanding in the 1990 series where the wickets were just as unhelpful and he was fully fit. Even Mervyn Dillon did better than Amby in the '97 series. That's because Amby was not fully fit in 1997. You tried to make the point that the wickets in 1990 were more helpful, sorry I don't buy that.

Additionally, idk where people get this notion that Ambrose struggled on flat wickets. Throughout his career the WI traditionally played tests at 5 main grounds. Of those the ARG and Bourda were by far the flattest. Below is Ambrose's record at those grounds:

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

You might pick Imran on flat wickets but for me, I'm picking Ambrose for anywhere in the world that isn't Pakistan (even there his record is still very very good).

 

[Kirkut]

Ambrose!

The awkward bounce he got from fullish lengths was more difficult to face than relatively skiddy and speedier Imran.

 

[Migara]

Ambrose!

The awkward bounce he got from fullish lengths was more difficult to face than relatively skiddy and speedier Imran.

Imran and Ambrose were roughly the same pace. In the case of Imran it was late swing that did batsmen, and the control he had over swing. Just like Ambrose who had mastery on line and length, and movement off the wicket.

And having said than Imran was not a midget and used to bowl some searing short stuff as well.

 

[Starfighter]

Imran was definitely faster than Ambrose.

 

[akilana]

Ambrose > Steyn or Wasim

Again

Steyn > Ambrose > McGrath > Wasim.

 

[akilana]

Yeah Ambrose was vicious. He didn't wait for batsmen to make mistakes. He forced them to.

That’s why I rate him higher than McGrath.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Again

Steyn > Ambrose > McGrath > Wasim.

That’s why I rate him higher than McGrath.

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