Imran Khan vs Curtley Ambrose

[ankitj]

Overall avg in the overseas series played by ATG bowlers compared to their own avg in those series:

Steyn: 36 overall vs 24.9
McGrath: 30 overall vs 20.8
Imran: 33 overall vs 26
Marshall: 29 overall vs 21
Ambrose: 28 overall vs 21
Hadlee: 30 overall vs 21.9

Probably a stupid analysis (because its affected by too many factors here to be reliable) but less stupid than most stuff in this thread imo. Clearly Imran played in way more high scoring series than the others so, in context his numbers are as impressive as any of the others. and had as much relative impact in his series as the others did.

Steyn obviously the best by a distance.

Now also do this for home averages. To average 19 in Pakistan as a pacer is special.

 

[kyear2]

Was it though?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Was it though?

Yes

 

[TheJediBrah]

Now also do this for home averages. To average 19 in Pakistan as a pacer is special.

Imran Khan was a special player. But you still have to put things in context.

This "average 19 in Pakistan" is so special because it's hard being a fast bowler in Pakistan right? But if it's so hard being a fast bowler in Pakistan then why did Imran average 19 there and 26 away from there? Clearly for him, for whatever reasons, it was easier in Pakistan than away.

 

[ankitj]

Imran Khan was a special player. But you still have to put things in context.

This "average 19 in Pakistan" is so special because it's hard being a fast bowler in Pakistan right? But if it's so hard being a fast bowler in Pakistan then why did Imran average 19 there and 26 away from there? Clearly for him, for whatever reasons, it was easier in Pakistan than away.

 

[kyear2]

Imran Khan was a special player. But you still have to put things in context.

This "average 19 in Pakistan" is so special because it's hard being a fast bowler in Pakistan right? But if it's so hard being a fast bowler in Pakistan then why did Imran average 19 there and 26 away from there? Clearly for him, for whatever reasons, it was easier in Pakistan than away.

I don't mean to belabour the point, but I seriously don't get why this is so hard. There was obviously some level of malfeasance, everyone knows it but pretends it didn't exist.

It's almost willful and sincerely not attacking anyone personally, but a little disingenuous.

 

[Slifer]

And the bowler that Imran is being compared to, averaged 22.5, and struck every 56 balls in Asia over 6 tests. This imo, is more than acceptable.

 

[ankitj]

And the bowler that Imran is being compared to, averaged 22.5, and struck every 56 balls in Asia over 6 tests. This imo, is more than acceptable.

So is average of 25 away from home especially when worst average in any country is 28.5. When we start dissecting stats by countries and oppositions 2-3 points in averages mean zilch.

Ambrose is better than Imran IMO because he was overall more menacing over a longer period than Imran; Imran had a slow start and then played primarily as a batsman at later stages. This adequately reflects in their career averages. Home vs. Away "disparity" in Imran's record is a non-issue.

 

[Slifer]

So is average of 25 away from home especially when worst average in any country is 28.5. When we start dissecting stats by countries and oppositions 2-3 points in averages mean zilch.

Ambrose is better than Imran IMO because he was overall more menacing over a longer period than Imran; Imran had a slow start and then played primarily as a batsman at later stages. This adequately reflects in their career averages. Home vs. Away "disparity" in Imran's record is a non-issue.

I disagree with the bolded, but I will say i respect your overall opinion. ??????

 

[smash84]

So is average of 25 away from home especially when worst average in any country is 28.5. When we start dissecting stats by countries and oppositions 2-3 points in averages mean zilch.

Ambrose is better than Imran IMO because he was overall more menacing over a longer period than Imran; Imran had a slow start and then played primarily as a batsman at later stages. This adequately reflects in their career averages. Home vs. Away "disparity" in Imran's record is a non-issue.

Interestingly enough Imran was good from 1976-77 to 1988-89 (and not a good bowler outside of this period). Which is about the same length as Ambrose or McGrath's whole career.

 

[Slifer]

Interestingly enough Imran was good from 1976-77 to 1988-89 (and not a good bowler outside of this period). Which is about the same length as Ambrose or McGrath's whole career.

This is a lil off topic but what I find odd, is that most pundits I've come across usually rank Akram above Imran. Afaic it's no contest Imran>Wasim

 

[smash84]

This is a lil off topic but what I find odd, is that most pundits I've come across usually rank Akram above Imran. Afaic it's no contest Imran>Wasim

It's like McGrath vs Wasim.

Wasim had so many tricks up his sleeve and could just bowl magical deliveries with the ball very frequently that his average of 23.5 seems like an underachievement.

Wasim was arguably the most magical bowler ever to play the game and so the job of just getting cheap wickets gets overlooked (where a few others were better than him).

Hence most rate Wasim so highly.

 

[Engle]

Let's look at another pacer of the time on SC wickets, Kapil Dev :



Are we saying that there was ' malfeasance ' here because of the disparity in home vs away ?

Also, who was instrumental in introducing neutral umpires ?

 

[sunilz]

This is a lil off topic but what I find odd, is that most pundits I've come across usually rank Akram above Imran. Afaic it's no contest Imran>Wasim

Akram was more difficult to face because of his variation and Left handed bowling

 

[sunilz]

Let's look at another pacer of the time on SC wickets, Kapil Dev :

View attachment 29121

Are we saying that there was ' malfeasance ' here because of the disparity in home vs away ?

Also, who was instrumental in introducing neutral umpires ?

Teams didn't forfeit their innings in India because of biased home umpiring.

And due to his poor overseas record , Kapil is not rated as ATG fast bowler by many on CW.

Imran introduced neutral umpiring and the result was immediate for everyone to see.
Pak which lost 1 test at home between 1980-90 , lost test series to almost every test nation ( even Zimbabwe)

 

[sunilz]

I think very few people know about this incident

 

[ankitj]

Rating and rankings comparison

 

[ankitj]

Interestingly enough Imran was good from 1976-77 to 1988-89 (and not a good bowler outside of this period). Which is about the same length as Ambrose or McGrath's whole career.

Yeah, it gets really close if we restrict to Imran's best 12-13 years. WAFG!

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[sunilz]

Rating and rankings comparison

View attachment 29124
View attachment 29128

Number of days above 800 ranking points(Till 2010)

 

[The Sean]

Number of days above 800 ranking points

Haha not running down Bill O'Reilly because he is one of the absolute all-time great bowlers, but he's the beneficiary of some fortunate - for want of a better word - timing there to have the entirety of World War II counted among his days above 800 points!