*Official* First Test at Trent Bridge, Nottingham - Aug 4-8 - 2021

[Uppercut]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Particularly when there is a narrow view of what constitutes evidence (i.e. raw numbers).

What do you mean about seam movement? I don't understand the sentence.

I just mean that seam movement hardly ever happened during the first ~half of Clarke's career. The ball swung for 20 overs if you were lucky, then it went through arrow-straight for the rest of the innings. I think the bounce was usually more consistent too, though that's less easy to spot on TV.

I kind of assumed that there wouldn't be any data on this, but I checked and Cricviz collect data on average degree of seam movement for England that shows it happening here: https://www.cricviz.com/swing-kings/. There might be equivalent data for other countries.

That absence of evidence is not evidence of absence was kind of my point. Batting may or may not have gotten worse, it's basically impossible to tell, but it has definitely gotten harder.

That said, the story about short format cricket ruining techniques isn't one that I buy personally, at least not over that time period. In the 2000s and early 2010s we had lots of openers who didn't move their feet but nevertheless had good-to-excellent careers. Trescothick, Hayden, Gayle, Smith, Jayasuriya. Old timers kept telling us they were going to get found out by lateral movement, and sometimes they did, but lateral movement was rare enough that it wasn't usually a major problem. Nowadays we don't see many players succeeding with that type of technique. I expected Jason Roy to go OK in tests, because I was used to players with his strengths and weaknesses scoring enough in good conditions to get by. The fact that he bombed so hard really drove home how much the game has changed.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Root has 1000 and a bit runs this year with 7 tests left, if he beats Clarke's 1788 by the end if the year whos would have been the better effort?

Root will have done his playing the best sides in the world and the best attacks, not sure who Clarke played against or how many games but both players had/are having mental years of brilliant run scoring.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Resting a little easy after the way the openers faced up to the English seamers. Don't think there's anything drastically different England can offer bowling-wise; maybe Wood/Stone's pace, but since this is a long series, I have a feeling the Indian batting will start firing somewhat in sync by the third Test.

 

[_00_deathscar]

That said, the story about short format cricket ruining techniques isn't one that I buy personally, at least not over that time period.

Yea Pujara doesn't jump between formats and he's considerably struggled in the last few years too. Rahane as well especially compared to the guys that do.

Now they've also just gotten worse over time too, but I also don't buy that argument - there are plenty of batsmen who were/are doing great across formats.

 

[Manee]

I still disagree but I'm tired of this discussion but let's return to it another day.

 

[Flem274*]

old cricket is not all its made out to be

 

[Woodster]

England have returned to Moeen for the second Test despite him playing one first class match int the last 23 months! Now it looks a desperate move to try and balance the side with no Stokes or Woakes and Sam Curran just not offering enough with the ball when it’s not absolutely hooping.

Now I’m not saying that a fully fit and focused Moeen who has long format cricket under his belt shouldn’t be near the side because he quite obviously should be in the discussion. Just not sure what he’s being picked on? His form in The Hundred? Could be a hunch that might work, but surely we need someone with more recent red ball cricket under his belt, despite his experience. Same with Bairstow in the last Test.

 

[Nintendo]

England have returned to Moeen for the second Test despite him playing one first class match int the last 23 months! Now it looks a desperate move to try and balance the side with no Stokes or Woakes and Sam Curran just not offering enough with the ball when it’s not absolutely hooping.

Now I’m not saying that a fully fit and focused Moeen who has long format cricket under his belt shouldn’t be near the side because he quite obviously should be in the discussion. Just not sure what he’s being picked on? His form in The Hundred? Could be a hunch that might work, but surely we need someone with more recent red ball cricket under his belt, despite his experience. Same with Bairstow in the last Test.

Tbf Moeen came just short of the fastest test 50 and took 8 wickets in his last test, so not like he's not still got it. Is definitely an odd selection though.

 

[honestbharani]

So? Moeen for Lawrence and that's it? Is Woakes available for this test? Is Pope available? Do we see Jonny B at 3?

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

So? Moeen for Lawrence and that's it? Is Woakes available for this test? Is Pope available? Do we see Jonny B at 3?

We could see Wood replace SCurran as the 4th seamer, especially if Moeen comes in to give a 5th bowling option. Crawley definitely on thin ice too - could be replaced in a straight swap by Hameed or just shuffled out if Pope comes back in. He might just get another chance though.

Woakes was said to be targeting the 3rd Test for a return, so don't think he's available for this one. Pope more likely to be fit, but I haven't seen it confirmed yet.

 

[Uppercut]

So? Moeen for Lawrence and that's it? Is Woakes available for this test? Is Pope available? Do we see Jonny B at 3?

Woakes is out. Looks like Pope will come back in, probably for Bairstow.

I thought Crawley looked horrendous in this game, was making two or three mistakes every over. It's almost better to just get out first ball, which can happen to anyone. But I think he'll play this test. The selectors absolutely adore him.

 

[theegyptian]

lol - pick a 17 man squad for the first two tests which is ridic big for a home series, and then bring in Moeen for second test to make it 18. Spinners Bess and Leach already in squad but didn't play first test. It really does look like they have no idea what they are doing at this point.

You'd think with Stokes' (and other players) issues regarding lockdown burnout/isolation/boredom they'd be conscious of not having a load of guys stuck on the sidelines in a covid secure group doing nothing.

 

[honestbharani]

To be fair, with concussion and covid substitutes being a thing, the bigger squad is understandable.

 

[Uppercut]

They're not missing any real cricket either. It makes sense.

 

[theegyptian]

Bess or Leach could be at home with their family and playing for their county in the 50 over stuff, rather than spending another month or so stuck in a hotel room doing nothing but staring at the walls. You need 3, maybe 4 players in reserve at most. They've just shown with Moeen that they can call a player up at the last moment if they want.

And presumably they are calling Moeen up on the back of playing 'not real cricket'.

 

[wpdavid]

lol - pick a 17 man squad for the first two tests which is ridic big for a home series, and then bring in Moeen for second test to make it 18. Spinners Bess and Leach already in squad but didn't play first test. It really does look like they have no idea what they are doing at this point.

That's my take on it too. I wasn't in favour of Bess's selection in the first place, but what has Moeen done to overtake him since then? Unless The Hundred is now being viewed as adequate preparation for test cricket.

All of the noises coming from the England team suggest that Hameed will play at Lord's, probably instead of Crawley. They also suggest that Bairstow will be retained at 5, which probably make sense given what we saw at Trent Bridge. Thereafter, it get tricky. I wonder whether Moeen will replace Lawrence and bat at 7, with Buttler moving up to 6 so we have five bowlers. Either that or, if he is fit, Pope replaces Lawrence and we only go in with four bowlers again.

 

[Woodster]

Tbf Moeen came just short of the fastest test 50 and took 8 wickets in his last test, so not like he's not still got it. Is definitely an odd selection though.

I don’t doubt that he can still add something to this current side, just querying whether some decent form in The Hundred is sufficient evidence in which to win a recall. Desperate times I suppose call for desperate measures in terms of trying to balance this side without Stokes in particular.

 

[Gnske]

Strauss said on air that Bairstow was in good form because he was bopping a few in the Hundred.

It's like saying he's cool because he survived Dachau with his fratboys on a trip through Europe a month back.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Strauss said on air that Bairstow was in good form because he was bopping a few in the Hundred.

It's like saying he's cool because he survived Dachau with his fratboys on a trip through Europe a month back.

People have been chosen for England on the basis of far less credentials than that.

 

[cnerd123]

Moeen isn't really leapfrogging Bess or Leach since he's getting picked to be an allrounder.