Top 30 batsmen of the modern era (1990s -Current)

[Slifer]

That's fine, you must have extremely high standards for a "strong" attack

Imo a strong attack would be what Australia currently have. Ditto NZ, India, South Africa and England (at home).

 

[honestbharani]

I think an under rated aspect of the Aussie ATG side of the noughties is the fact that they piled up so many runs that an average of even 30 and a run rate of more than 3 an over etc were never an issue for them. They simply scored more than that and as long as the bowler was able to strike at a decent to good rate, that was more important for that side. Hence, Brett Lee and MacGill were such good fits for that side.

He is not the guy you would want in a series like the recent BG one but when your batting keeps putting up more than 400 or 500 on the board, you get a lot more leeway (see what I did there) as a bowler. So in that context of that batting line up, a bowling line up with Lee and MacGill is still pretty high quality IMO.

 

[harsh.ag]

Gillespie Lee Bichel MacGill is a fantastic attack.

Lee and Gillespie outbowled McGrath in the two tests he played anyway.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Imo a strong attack would be what Australia currently have. Ditto NZ, India, South Africa and England (at home).

There are definitely some good attacks floating around atm (though still doubt they are stronger than the one in discussion) but you're really underrating these guys. Gillespie and MacGill were borderline ATG, Lee was hot and cold but could be unplayable. Bichel and Hogg are definitely a step or 2 down from those guys but would be thought of very differently if they came along in a different time period, or for a different side. I doubt there were any other attacks in 2003 stronger than that one, even without mcGrath.

 

[Flem274*]

Lee was a mediocre bowler fortunate to play for the right team at the right time, but there's no denying Gillespie - Lee - Bichel - MacGill make a very strong attack.

 

[Daemon]

Gillespie and MacGill are not what I’d call borderline ATG but yeah agree that it’s a strong attack. Gillespie ATVG maybe but Macgill’s not even that.

 

[Nintendo]

Gillespie and MacGill are not what I’d call borderline ATG but yeah agree that it’s a strong attack. Gillespie ATVG maybe but Macgill’s not even that.

200 wickets at 29 isn't atvg for a spinner? MacGill also played in a very batsmen friendly era.

 

[honestbharani]

200 wickets at 29 isn't atvg for a spinner? MacGill also played in a very batsmen friendly era.

He also played a lot of his games in spin friendly surfaces though.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He also played a lot of his games in spin friendly surfaces though.

Not as many as any spinner from Asia, some would consider Kumble and Harbhajan close to atvg and they played on spin friendly wickets more than MacGill

edit: looking through his games, not sure that's even true. 8 tests at Sydney is more than a fair amout, but it's not like Sydney was ever a dustbowl. He also played 4 Tests at Brisbane, 2 at Hobart, 2 at Perth, 4 at Melbourne, 5 at Adelaide (which you wouldn't call friendly for any bowler). And a total of just 7 Tests in Asia.

He would have played a slightly higher percentage of his games at Sydney than Warne but this whole "played most of his games in spin friendly conditions' is definitely a bit of a myth tbh. He mostly played when Warne was unavailable.

 

[Nintendo]

I should have clarified, the "he played in a hard batting era" thing was ment to be a nullifying factor to the "he played on tons of spin friendly surface" thing. As YJB pointed out above, thats clearly not as true as some are making it out to be.

 

[honestbharani]

The real question is how many times he played as a second spinner. That will tell you how many wickets were thought of to be favorable for spin than just randomly going through the grounds he played in.

And Kumble and Harbhajan almost always get to play 50% of their games in the subcontinent. That does not mean all of them were spin friendly either but the point is that is a given for them, which it perhaps will not be for MacGill had he been the lead spinner for his side.

 

[Raz0r6ack]

MacGil played 28 Tests without Warne and 16 with Warne.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Harbhajan close to atvg

That's a worse call than MacGill is almost ATG

 

[TheJediBrah]

re. MacGill, counter to the "games played as second spinner means wicket was spin friendly" theory is that a chunk of those will be at Adelaide, where Aus often played 2 spinners partly in the hope that a hypothetical 5th day wicket will be super-responsive and partly because it was so flat the it was a graveyard for fast bowlers (which I assume would also be the case on some of the flatter subcontinental wickets).

And just checking the stats MacGill averaged 45 at Adelaide. Just because they often played 2 spinners doesn't mean it's helpful.

The real question is how many times he played as a second spinner.

That's easy, not as many as people think

And Kumble and Harbhajan almost always get to play 50% of their games in the subcontinent.

Definitely more than 50%

 

[sunilz]

Macgill was like fast bowling version of Srinath. Now how highly you rate Macgill depends on how you rate Srinath?

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'd consider MacGill a level or 2 above Srinath but I didn't follow Srinath's career very closely so you might be right

 

[Slifer]

Tbh if MacGill were West Indian, I'd probably include him in my all time XI at the expense of Holding. That's the kinda regard I have for him. Very very good spinner who was unfortunate to play when he did.

 

[Daemon]

The main issue with MacGill for me is that he just didn't play enough.

He didn't play in NZ, SA, India or England. Only 1 series each in BD, SL and Pakistan.

Not his fault, but too bad.

On the other hand, upon reconsidering I think Gillespie is definitely ATVG tier.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The main issue with MacGill for me is that he just didn't play enough.

Always been the issue, why he's considered possibly the unluckiest cricketer (in that regard) in Australia. Who knows what he could have been if he'd had a whole career with a regular secured position to hone his skills rather than having to come in cold for a game or 3 every 6-18 months for whatever reason.

 

[Chrish]

McGill was decent at best; turned the ball but didn’t have anywhere near the control of Warne. I could only imagine how bad he would have been in spinners’ then-graveyard ie. India had he played there.

He along with Bichel gets extra point from me for being well-behaving cricketers which was in strict contrast to Aussie players of that time, but also gets overrated for “what could have been” scenario.