*Official* World Test Championship Final 2021

[Jack1]

Tom Latham
Devon Conway
Kane Williamson
Ross Taylor
Henry Nicholls
BJ Watling
Colin de Grandhomme/Will Young (pitch dependent, adjust batting positions accordingly)
Kyle Jamieson
Tim Southee
Neil Wagner
Ajaz Patel

This is the team. This is not the team NZ will select, but it is the right team. Harsh on Boult, but he looks very short of a gallop. Harsh on Henry, but 3 specialist right arm outswing bowlers is silly. This side has variety and the only selection decision remaining depends on the pitch. If it's flat, go with the extra bowling of the allrounder. If she's green, stack the batting.

If it was green then Boult/Henry for Patel and Young for Grandhomme. But it won't be green. I would play that above team with de Grandhomme playing over Young.

 

[Zinzan]

I don't like the thought of Ajaz Patel over one of our seamers, but I'd prefer him over Santner if the selectors are going to go down that route.

I'd rather see us stack the batting a bit more and get spin out of KW:

Latham
Conway
KW
Taylor
Young
Nicholls
Watling
Jamieson
Southee
Wagner
Boult

KW's reluctance to bowl himself in the last few years has been both bizarre & disappointing. He took some crucial Test wickets circa 2013-17 (including in our Test win at Headingly in '16) even after he re-modeled his action after the chucking allegations. I think he could be just as useful a part-time option as Root. Can't be his elbow issue either as that issue is with his left arm from memory.

Given your preference the 4-prong pace bowling attack, I'm interested in your rationale for selecting Boult over Henry though, considering Boult's recent red ball decline, & since you already have the left-armer variation in Wagner, along with the fact Henry is superman vs Clark Kent with the Duke ball in English conditions.

 

[James]

KW's reluctance to bowl himself in the last few years has been both bizarre & disappointing. He took some crucial Test wickets circa 2013-17 (including in our Test win at Headingly in '16) even after he re-modeled his action after the chucking allegations. I think he could be just as useful a part-time option as Root. Can't be his elbow issue either as that issue is with his left arm from memory.

Given your preference the 4-prong pace bowling attack, I'm interested in your rationale for selecting Boult over Henry though, considering Boult's recent red ball decline, & since you already have the left-armer variation in Wagner, along with the fact Henry is superman vs Clark Kent with the Duke ball in English conditions.

My thought exactly re KW - I truly think that if he'd continued taking his bowling seriously, he would have become a full all-rounder. His spin bowling ability is way under-rated in my mind.

Re Boult, to me, it just feels harsh and a bit unfair that he's helped us get to the Final and then we discard him for Henry/Patel. I know it's sport, all about the team, not the individual, etc but for all that Boult has given us over the years, it doesn't sit right with me that he is dropped for the final. Southee, Boult, Wagner will go down as the greatest NZ fast bowling lineup of all-time and I'd like to see them get what they deserve in seeing us to a WTC Trophy.

 

[SteveNZ]

Wouldn't it also be a consideration in regards to Williamson and the elbow that is clearly giving him a lot of trouble?

 

[Days of Grace]

Unless we bat Jamieson at no.7 or the pitch is green, it’s going to be incredibly harsh on whoever has to make way. There’s no getting around it.

 

[SteveNZ]

Absolutely. I still think the four seamer thing is the best way forward, and I'd play Mitchell because he's a more dependable middle order option (and CDG v spin gives me no confidence). And a lot of people are saying no Patel because India plays spin well, but that's not an absolute fact that they at all times dominate good spin bowling.

 

[harsh.ag]

I don't like the thought of Ajaz Patel over one of our seamers, but I'd prefer him over Santner if the selectors are going to go down that route.

I'd rather see us stack the batting a bit more and get spin out of KW:

Latham
Conway
KW
Taylor
Young
Nicholls
Watling
Jamieson
Southee
Wagner
Boult

Yeah, this would be the side to give NZ the best chance.

 

[nzfan]

Time to start thinking about wtc now, the England series done and dusted...

India in comparison to England is a different challenge. India has good number of match winners with the bat and ball. Each of the Indian batsman (maybe barring Gill) is a match winner on their day. Each are capable of scoring over 150+ if they get on a roll unlike say England. England batsmen had the ability to score 30s, 40s, 50s or even 80s but big hundreds was not their cup of tea barring Root. Surprised Burns did but we did contribute to his knock by giving him several chances. Besides Indian batsman don't get a 100 in 250 balls (barring Pujara of course), they get 100 in 140 balls which means the bowlers take some trashing that could affect the bowler's confidence.

Indian bowling is good, they have everything covered. Pace, accuracy, swing, seam, reverse, spin, mystery balls pretty much everything.

Even all round options are covered by India, a complete team on paper. Whether they will translate this into a performance is debatable. A lot of times they seem to underperform.

India has the ability to score over 500 if they get struck in unlike England. England's best effort could have been 400 at the most.

Not to say that I don't have confident in our players. We have some holes but we do have lot of good things going our way. Selection is going to be a headache and we will make one or two selection mistakes but that's all right. 17 players have had reasonable hits in the 2 match series so we are well covered in most of the departments. All rounders haven't really performed. Bowling at times has been one dimensional. Not convinced still about our spin option. Some of the batters haven't had major scores but we have put in scores that can win us a game. Despite these minor issues very upbeat about our chances.

My prediction is we are going to wins hands down or we're going to get walloped.

 

[Daemon]

Time to start thinking about wtc now, the England series done and dusted...

India in comparison to England is a different challenge. India has good number of match winners with the bat and ball. Each of the Indian batsman (maybe barring Gill) is a match winner on their day. Each are capable of scoring over 150+ if they get on a roll unlike say England. England batsmen had the ability to score 30s, 40s, 50s or even 80s but big hundreds was not their cup of tea barring Root. Surprised Burns did but we did contribute to his knock by giving him several chances. Besides Indian batsman don't get a 100 in 250 balls (barring Pujara of course), they get 100 in 140 balls which means the bowlers take some trashing that could affect the bowler's confidence.

Indian bowling is good, they have everything covered. Pace, accuracy, swing, seam, reverse, spin, mystery balls pretty much everything.

Even all round options are covered by India, a complete team on paper. Whether they will translate this into a performance is debatable. A lot of times they seem to underperform.

India has the ability to score over 500 if they get struck in unlike England. England's best effort could have been 400 at the most.

Not to say that I don't have confident in our players. We have some holes but we do have lot of good things going our way. Selection is going to be a headache and we will make one or two selection mistakes but that's all right. 17 players have had reasonable hits in the 2 match series so we are well covered in most of the departments. All rounders haven't really performed. Bowling at times has been one dimensional. Not convinced still about our spin option. Some of the batters haven't had major scores but we have put in scores that can win us a game. Despite these minor issues very upbeat about our chances.

My prediction is we are going to wins hands down or we're going to get walloped.

I think this really overestimates our batting. India has crossed 400 in England just the once since the start of the 2011 tour.

On the other hand there’s been about a dozen scores of <200.

People underestimate how bad we are with the bat in these conditions.

 

[OverratedSanity]

India has crossed 400 in England just the once since the start of the 2011 tour.

And that was on a pitch where James Anderson scored 81.

 

[Bahnz]

Yep, I think if we were picking our absolute best XI for the final it would be: Latham, Conway, KW, Young, Nicholls, Blundell, CdG, Jamieson, Southee, Wagner, Ajaz.

Taylor and Watling will play though, for obvious reasons, and I suspect Boult will as well (he did have some excellent spells v India when they toured last year.

or NZ could go with an oddball top order to keep India guessing: Young, Conway, KW, Latham (conserve him for the spinners)

 

[Bahnz]

KW's reluctance to bowl himself in the last few years has been both bizarre & disappointing. He took some crucial Test wickets circa 2013-17 (including in our Test win at Headingly in '16) even after he re-modeled his action after the chucking allegations. I think he could be just as useful a part-time option as Root. Can't be his elbow issue either as that issue is with his left arm from memory.

Given your preference the 4-prong pace bowling attack, I'm interested in your rationale for selecting Boult over Henry though, considering Boult's recent red ball decline, & since you already have the left-armer variation in Wagner, along with the fact Henry is superman vs Clark Kent with the Duke ball in English conditions.

KW’s had issues with his hip and elbow (obviously a worry for him) for a while which is a big part of why he’s bowled less in the past couple years.

 

[Nintendo]

Remember a few posters mentioning that Conway is very susceptible to off-spin early on in his innings. Doubt India would bowl ash or jaddu early because a)Kohli has never done that, Rahane was the one bringing ash on early and B)Latham and Kane are both very, very good players of spin, and bringing them on early May feed them runs and let them set it. Still a good idea imo.

 

[Flem274*]

or NZ could go with an oddball top order to keep India guessing: Young, Conway, KW, Latham (conserve him for the spinners)

hmm everything i've seen of will young heavily suggests avoid opening if possible. does a lot right, but SENA openers need to be watertight, and he isn't.

tom latham would average 47-48 if he played in the middle order. think of all those sri lankan pacers without even a new ball to give them a chance against him.

 

[Prince EWS]

hmm everything i've seen of will young heavily suggests avoid opening if possible. does a lot right, but SENA openers need to be watertight, and he isn't.

tom latham would average 47-48 if he played in the middle order. think of all those sri lankan pacers without even a new ball to give them a chance against him.

Yeah ideally no-one should actually open. Latham has always opened but his strengths and weaknesses indicate he'd be much better if he didn't; Conway has smashed it but not only "ditto Latham" but also he's traditionally sucked it and had most of his domestic success elsewhere; Young has a technical flaw exaggerated by it and the rest are kind of locked in.

Make Boult and Southee do it and extend the middle order to 9.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah ideally no-one should actually open. Latham has always opened but his strengths and weaknesses indicate he'd be much better if he didn't; Conway has smashed it but not only "ditto Latham" but also he's traditionally sucked it and had most of his domestic success elsewhere; Young has a technical flaw exaggerated by it and the rest are kind of locked in.

Make Boult and Southee do it and extend the middle order to 9.

I suppose the one advantage Conway has opening is he avoids a troll spinner early in his innings most days (Asia tours excepted).

If England had their time again I would definitely throw Root at Conway for an over if he was on strike, taking care to avoid Root to Tom Latham.

Kane Williamson probably has the best technique for opening in the NZ side. CDG as well, though he lacks the brains to bat higher than #7.

 

[Prince EWS]

I suppose the one advantage Conway has opening is he avoids a troll spinner early in his innings most days (Asia tours excepted).

Yeah I think ideally Conway would bat 3 or 4 while Latham's game seems to suit batting even further down. You're not going to move a Kiwi opening averaging 40+ though; you're more likely to bow.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah I think ideally Conway would bat 3 or 4 while Latham's game seems to suit batting even further down. You're not going to move a Kiwi opening averaging 40+ though; you're more likely to bow.

I agree. Latham gives me strong Stephen Fleming vibes. Fleming's top order Australian, England and South African tons mask his somewhat dubious play of the moving ball.

Both hate converting starts and both eat spinners for breakfast unless it's a proper turner. Latham would love batting at #5. At home against the old kookaburra he might literally never get out unless Australia or South Africa are bowling.

It suited both sides to have Latham and Fleming bat where they did/do though.

 

[Flem274*]

Rohit
Gill
Pujara
Kohli (c)
Rahane
Pant (wk)
Jadeja
Ashwin
Shami
Ishant
Bumrah

Pretty formindable looking bowling line up and lower order batting. Some Indian posters are Gambhiring their top order and I can understand why, but several of those dudes have gone huge in England and they're not facing players who have grown up in England so I think India's batting is looking pretty good here.

 

[Nintendo]

I agree. Latham gives me strong Stephen Fleming vibes. Fleming's top order Australian, England and South African tons mask his somewhat dubious play of the moving ball.

Both hate converting starts and both eat spinners for breakfast unless it's a proper turner. Latham would love batting at #5. At home against the old kookaburra he might literally never get out unless Australia or South Africa are bowling.

It suited both sides to have Latham and Fleming bat where they did/do though.

You can do this exercise for a number of people tbh, imagine how good Warner, who despite having Mitch marsh numbers away from home still averages near 50 in test opening would do down the order at 5/6.