James
Cricket Web Owner
Can't disagree with any of that. Given the importance of Kane, Jamieson, Boult, Southee I hope we see some rotation through the series.
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
2020/21 New Zealand Domestic Season
- Thread starter Kippax
- Start date
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
I'd like to see how it goes the next 2 games for firebirds if Allen goes early. In the past of Allen goes early Ravindra came in and hit bombs allowing Conway to close out games. Blundell takes his time and maybe that puts a bit of pressure on Conway to play differently. I think Bracewell is not a bad option at 3 with Blundell coming at 4.
thundaboult
International Debutant
chapman for cdg at this point and that's a team
James
Cricket Web Owner
Bowler short then? Need 6 bowlers in T20 IMO.
thundaboult
International Debutant
won't kill clarkson kane and pilllips to share 4 overs i think
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I don't think the fact that the bowlers may die was really the concern. It's definitely a bowler light IMO.
thundaboult
International Debutant
Ben sears, adam milne, lockie ferguson and mitchell santner all seem to have the same t20 economy rate hahaha
thundaboult
International Debutant
lmao
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
I wouldn't even bother working out our XI for now. The BC management doesn't have the courage or acumen to recognize talent early and give them a go in at least some jam games. Why do I feel we will fall back on 30 to mid 30s players for the next few years till the wheels come off and then go oh we ****ed up let's start rebuilding again but then it'll be a tiny bit late and the super talented players of now by then will be like today's Rutherfords, Doug Bracewells, Ajaz Patels 
I think the sub continent teams would have done wonders with our younger lot. It's almost like if you are young you are up against it. It should be an advantage ideally but in NZ it's a disadvantage.
I think the sub continent teams would have done wonders with our younger lot. It's almost like if you are young you are up against it. It should be an advantage ideally but in NZ it's a disadvantage.
Flem274*
123/5
nah the players you suggest often haven't earned anything or are behind other less experienced players like phillips, jamieson and conway, who are rightly ahead in the order.I wouldn't even bother working out our XI for now. The BC management doesn't have the courage or acumen to recognize talent early and give them a go in at least some jam games. Why do I feel we will fall back on 30 to mid 30s players for the next few years till the wheels come off and then go oh we ****ed up let's start rebuilding again but then it'll be a tiny bit late and the super talented players of now by then will be like today's Rutherfords, Doug Bracewells, Ajaz Patels
nathan smith for example belongs in the A side. he hasn't done a thing to earn nz selection, and if we rotate the side as much as you would like we'll end up with a pile of players with a handful of games and underdone senior players.
this is the first time ever nz don't need to operate with the scarcity mindset. players have to force their way in and it makes nz a better side. kane averaging less than 30 in test cricket with the odd promising innings was not a good thing, it was ****ing woeful to sit through we're a much better side not having to resort to throwing in young talent.
atm we're on track for some players like lockie ferguson in tests to have unlucky brad hodge careers, and that is great for nz cricket even if it is bad for individuals. idc about individuals, i care about winning games.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
It's a huge mistake if the three of Allen - T20s in particular, Sears - white ball to start with and then moving on to red ball, Ravindra - all formats particularly in sub continent (No Wellington bias here, Allen is from Auckland) aren't going to be playing for BCs soon enough (I'll go easy with Nathan Smith for now which is fair enough). I'd love for Black Caps to keep winning the way they are but I have a very bad feeling about up coming tours to England, Pakistan and India. I'm convinced about say 8 players of the current side will be solid through out but there is still a little gap here and there in all three formats. Those are tough series' and need not just experience but flair, talent , outgoing attitude and x factor. I think if they don't start thinking and planning right now BCs will pay for it. Haven't we learnt from the recent Aus India series about the youth power?
Of course I'd loved to be proven wrong. We'll all be here in a year's time unless covid strikes or get hit by a beer truck on the way to work. In a year's time we will know if my guess was correct or yours.
BTW Firebirds the trailblazer team has plenty of youth along with very good experienced players. That's what you need in white ball cricket IMO. All good to stack experienced players in the red ball format but white ball cricket?
Of course I'd loved to be proven wrong. We'll all be here in a year's time unless covid strikes or get hit by a beer truck on the way to work. In a year's time we will know if my guess was correct or yours.
BTW Firebirds the trailblazer team has plenty of youth along with very good experienced players. That's what you need in white ball cricket IMO. All good to stack experienced players in the red ball format but white ball cricket?
Last edited:
James
Cricket Web Owner
What I think needs to happen to your point @nzfan is increasing how often NZ A play and tour. Send the NZ A team away on tours of Australia, India, etc. That will show us how good the likes of Allen, Sears, Ravindra, and co actually are.
My feeling is though that NZC can't afford to do the above and that's a limiting factor. This is the reason why India has so much depth now, their A team regularly plays.
My feeling is though that NZC can't afford to do the above and that's a limiting factor. This is the reason why India has so much depth now, their A team regularly plays.
Flem274*
123/5
before rachin's injury i think all 3 had a chance of a debut in some format. it's more the volume of players you put forward for the black caps.
i don't mind players being in the environment early since it gave the likes of jamieson a look at the best cricketers, but im not sure you realise the number of young players you demand selection for is stratospheric. you literally couldn't give them all game time in jamt20s or jamodis and still keep your normal players running.
im fine with giving sears a roll out against bangladesh, allen the t20s this summer and i was all for rachin joining the test squad if he started cracking tons instead of 50s in the late shield season. i think blundell is going to struggle against the duke in england and watling will retire very soon so i would not be surprised to see rachin debut in india like the previous kiwi batting prodigy.
our core test bowlers are southee, boult, wagner, jamieson and ferguson. the reserve batsmen are conway and young. mitchell has seized every opportunity as reserve allrounder with both hands. outplay those guys or get in line and play for NZ A, building your CV for the big time.
t20s could probably do with a small clearout. guptill looks shot, so did bennett, kuggs isn't a international bowler and tickner wastes his pace and bounce by not bowling at the sticks.
we have depth now and it's really nice.
i don't mind players being in the environment early since it gave the likes of jamieson a look at the best cricketers, but im not sure you realise the number of young players you demand selection for is stratospheric. you literally couldn't give them all game time in jamt20s or jamodis and still keep your normal players running.
im fine with giving sears a roll out against bangladesh, allen the t20s this summer and i was all for rachin joining the test squad if he started cracking tons instead of 50s in the late shield season. i think blundell is going to struggle against the duke in england and watling will retire very soon so i would not be surprised to see rachin debut in india like the previous kiwi batting prodigy.
our core test bowlers are southee, boult, wagner, jamieson and ferguson. the reserve batsmen are conway and young. mitchell has seized every opportunity as reserve allrounder with both hands. outplay those guys or get in line and play for NZ A, building your CV for the big time.
t20s could probably do with a small clearout. guptill looks shot, so did bennett, kuggs isn't a international bowler and tickner wastes his pace and bounce by not bowling at the sticks.
we have depth now and it's really nice.
Bahnz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I mean...let's be honest here. Rachin is a talented player, but averages 38 in first class cricket and 28 in List A's. That's not nearly good enough in either format. I agree with Flem. Players need to force their way in with consistent performances. You reference the performance of India's younger players in Australia recently. But Shubman Gill averages 66 in first class cricket. Pant averages over 50. Rachin hasn't done anything comparable to that. I like him a lot, and think he has a big roll to play in NZ's future, but punting him up before he's done enough to indicate that he's ready benefits no one, least of all him.
Allen and Sears have a bit more to fall back on (particularly Sears given how rare genuine quicks in NZ are). But both have plenty of high performing players in front of them and I disagree that their careers should be prioritised purely because they're a few years younger than the likes of Phillips, Seifert and Milne. That only serves to destabilise established sides and sow doubt in the minds of performing players. Sure if there are gaps that need to be filled and Allen and Sears are amongst the top performers in the comp then yeah it makes sense to have a dip on them given their potential benefits are larger in the long run. Until then, I don't give a fig about flair and talent. I want consistent results first. Having to wait in line for a few years only seemed to benefit Jamieson, I don't see why it should be any different for any of the emerging crop.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
The three players I picked out all have lots to offer.
Gill and Pant play in India on decks where Ravindra Jadeja has few triple hundys I think. Not a fair comparison. Our decks first half of the season is horrendous for the batters. It's a huge hit and miss. Even Gill couldn't buy a run here. I think Ravindra may be averaging maybe lots more for NZ A than firebirds for obvious reason.
I think Ravindra must have played no more than dozen one day games and out of which he probably batted in like 6 games. I can't even remember him playing ford trophy, maybe he has played a couple at best? Rest of them batting at 10 or 11 or lower order for some reason for NZ A.. not exactly sure but I saw him batting at no. 11 for NZ A
Which country does that, taking an opening batter and batting him at no.11 after Tickener? Coaching staff must have been drunk I thought. Wasn't he the top scorer for NZ A in UAE vs Pak A? Is that correct? Ravindra has won games with the ball too don't forget, a left arm spinner and bats at the top of the order. A sure shot for sub continent conditions. Don't just look at his batting, he has won games with the ball even at NZ A level in white ball and red ball cricket. Guys like him don't turn up every day. I don't think he should be drafted in now but keep him in mind for the squad when BCs tour sub continent but I know Santner will be ahead and so will Ajaz, Will Somerville, McConchie... It's not disrespect to those guys they're quite good too but we'll be wasting a good opportunity to win a game or two in case he comes good.Ben Sears is right behind Lockie as for pace is concerned in NZ. Yes a bit short on experience but if he has enough experience guys around him he'll come good and maybe can win a game overseas. Come on give him a go at some one dayer vs Bangladesh.
Finn Allen for now cannot be argued against. Every time he holds a bat at the other end holding the ball is the best bowler of the opponent. He has taken each one of them to cleaners and hasn't demonstrated any weakness to any particular plan meaning he's not being lucky here but is ahead of the game. I was convinced he should be picked against Bangladesh but now I'm convinced pick him against the Aussies. Nothing to lose...
I'd be backing Clarkson too if he's bowling consistently... I'll get on to his case later haha Anyways what I think doesn't matter but like I said I'm not getting a good vibe about our squads that are likely going to be picked to perform overseas. Only time can tell.