Jimmy Anderson

[srbhkshk]

Frankly the difference in that series bowling wise was that Swann and Panesar completely outbowled the Indian spinners, Anderson supported them well but that's about it.

 

[trundler]

Frankly the difference in that series bowling wise was that Swann and Panesar completely outbowled the Indian spinners, Anderson supported them well but that's about it.

And that's the best you can expect from him. Which is fine I suppose but let's not act as if Anderson averaging only slightly better than Ishant Sharma away from home is a coincidence.

 

[vcs]

I'm interested to know what skiddy swing bowlers of the past who had a similar style to Anderson did differently, in order to take big hauls in Asia and Australia. Steyn could bowl bouncers and reverse swing better, I guess.

 

[srbhkshk]

I'm interested to know what skiddy swing bowlers of the past who had a similar style to Anderson did differently, in order to take big hauls in Asia and Australia. Steyn could bowl bouncers and reverse swing better, I guess.

Steyn also has 15Kph more pace when he needs it which is a pretty handy to say the least.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Steyn also has 15Kph more pace when he needs it which is a pretty handy to say the least.

And played in a far far better attack.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah I dont intend to say Anderson was crap in India or anything but its pretty overstated how good he was because of that one Dhoni quote. He was really good, I wouldnt go any further than that, but because of that one quote its made out like he put on some legendary performance for the ages. Very good but nowhere near some of the stuff other overseas pacers have done, who tore through the Indian lineup multiple times. Microcosm of his career I suppose.

 

[Adders]

Wow thanks for posting this Adders. Really opened my eyes. Having such figures for his two best away series ever after 156 Tests is indeed quite poor.

Yeah well Daemon, it does help if you actually watch the series and are capable of putting stats into context.

 

[MW1304]

Vaas averaged 77.67 in England.

(that's not intended to defend Anderson by the way)

And yet it does defend him. Why so hesitant to defend him?

 

[Daemon]

I'm interested to know what skiddy swing bowlers of the past who had a similar style to Anderson did differently, in order to take big hauls in Asia and Australia. Steyn could bowl bouncers and reverse swing better, I guess.

Anderson and Steyn did a little live session on Instagram during lockdown that was really great. Steyn was saying he personally didn't have too many tricks, unlike Anderson who can make it move both ways.

Nek minit he's describing how he used to start off bowling slow outswing very close to the stumps then slowly moving further away, slipping in wide sucker balls, bowling cross seam, coming around the wicket to bowl short, running in harder with the old ball, using the crease etc.

He pretty much had all the ****ing tricks the lying ****.

 

[Daemon]

Yeah well Daemon, it does help if you actually watch the series and are capable of putting stats into context.

Actually I've just checked and it appears England never toured India in 2012.

 

[GIMH]

Ultimately it goes back to the age old CW mantra. Numbers don't lie but nor do they tell the whole story. Give him a stronger batting line-up away from home, or Swann bowling at 10-12 levels alongside him for longer, and perhaps some of those numbers change. He's done the job he's needed to in the circumstances plenty - series in the last decade where we've labelled him the reason for failure are few and far between. We can all look at a set of scorecards a decade later and go, see, average of xx, he must have been yy. It doesn't work like that.

Yes of course this is why he's not in the McGrath, Steyn tier but the idea it just makes him an honest trier who happens to have been able to stay fit is obviously laughable.

 

[Adders]

Actually I've just checked and it appears England never toured India in 2012.

Yes it has occurred to me that you only remember what you want to remember and see what you want to see.

 

[trundler]

Let's put Anderson's home stats in context.

Got pwned off the face of the earth by Amla and De Villiers as soon clouds deserted him. I'm not saying he isn't a beastly match winner at home but you could discredit his good home record the same lolworthy way

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Anderson and Steyn did a little live session on Instagram during lockdown that was really great. Steyn was saying he personally didn't have too many tricks, unlike Anderson who can make it move both ways.

Nek minit he's describing how he used to start off bowling slow outswing very close to the stumps then slowly moving further away, slipping in wide sucker balls, bowling cross seam, coming around the wicket to bowl short, running in harder with the old ball, using the crease etc.

He pretty much had all the ****ing tricks the lying ****.

not bad for a farmer boy, etc.

Also good luck trying to argue with rocks.

 

[harsh.ag]

 

[Pothas]

Overall Anderson averages 3.85 wpm (600/156) while Southee averages 3.89 wpm (284/73). Interesting that Southee has slightly more wickets per match despite having far worse bowling conditions to bowl in and being part of a superior seam attack.

This is the Tim Southee who averages over 40 against Australia? 60 against South Africa? 34 in England? Nobody cares enough about him or New Zealand to bother looking into his career properly. Take out West Indies and Sri Lanka and the guy averages 33. Imagine if he had to play 5 Tests against Australia each time instead of getting to home after a couple of Tests.

 

[harsh.ag]

Ultimately it goes back to the age old CW mantra. Numbers don't lie but nor do they tell the whole story. Give him a stronger batting line-up away from home, or Swann bowling at 10-12 levels alongside him for longer, and perhaps some of those numbers change. He's done the job he's needed to in the circumstances plenty - series in the last decade where we've labelled him the reason for failure are few and far between. We can all look at a set of scorecards a decade later and go, see, average of xx, he must have been yy. It doesn't work like that.

Yes of course this is why he's not in the McGrath, Steyn tier but the idea it just makes him an honest trier who happens to have been able to stay fit is obviously laughable.

Arguments made wrt how Hadlee and Murali's achievements are greater for having little support do not find favour on CW though. What do you think about those assertions?

 

[Pothas]

Even Trent Boult who I have always thought is a really good bowler. Averages almost 40 against Australia and over 40 against South Africa but he is lucky enough to have played more Tests against Sri Lanka and West Indies than against either of those two.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

This is the Tim Southee who averages over 40 against Australia? 60 against South Africa? 34 in England? Nobody cares enough about him or New Zealand to bother looking into his career properly. Take out West Indies and Sri Lanka and the guy averages 33. Imagine if he had to play 5 Tests against Australia each time instead of getting to home after a couple of Tests.

I've never thought Southee is better than Anderson. I just said that he has more wickets per match. As I stated earlier in the thread I think Anderson is better than Southee and Boult and is one of the top dozen bowlers of the 2010s (he could even be as high as 6th as there is little between 6th and 12th).

 

[Daemon]

Check out these sneaky NZers trying to take advantage of the Anderson truthing to put Wagner/Southee/Boult in Anderson's bracket.