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Is Dhoni greatest OdI cricketer off all-time

C

cricketsavant

U19 12th Man
Arachnodouche said:
Just looking through their stats, Dhoni has double the stumpings that Gilchrist has, as you would expect from someone of his skills standing up to the stumps and playing as much as he did on slow pitches in a team where spinners routinely bowl more than half of the overs. By the same token, Gilchrist has some hundred caught behinds over Dhoni, which is again something you would expect from someone playing a majority of their games outside the SC in a team with a seam-reliant attack. Their wicket-keeping skills cannot be seen out of context and for the most part cancel each other out.
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It doesn't really cancel out, because Dhoni has played SO MANY more games than Gilly, for him to still be behind is bad enough but for his dismissals per game to be 4th lowest also adds to the issue here. Plus the eye test is a thing, Dhoni the keeper around 2005-10 was pretty good, but from that point on, he was so unathletic even the indian media had a go at him for it (which he never liked). I think his movement behind the stumps, his ability to pick up balls and throw them back etc were all worse than Gilly's, who was far more athletic for a longer period of time. I will say, credit to Dhoni for having periods in his 30s when he did find himself back in shape but he did not always keep to it.
 
Teja.

Teja.

Global Moderator
I think Dhoni was a much better ODI batsman than Gilchrist.

I also think that Dhoni has played about half of the top 8 worst ODI innings I’ve ever seen where he just gave up trying to win and started rotating the strike at 12 rpo. with 7 overs to go to bag a cheeky 48* (41) style inning and see India through for a comfortable loss. He basically gave up and forfeited the tiny chance of a win if he started slogging when India had a 5-10% chance if he took massive risks so that we could lose respectably which was nauseous to me and contributed to some of my worst moments as a cricket fan.

It really doesn’t matter what the people before him did, what he did I’m those innings is a black mark against him imo. I agree with Daemon and OS.
 
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_00_deathscar

International Regular
I can't believe we're still arguing about this.

In Tests, there is NO DOUBT who is far, far better.

In ODIs, it's much closer. Dhoni, ignoring his awful slump, was a better batsman than Gilchrist though the latter had fine innings from time to time. Their keeping was about even. There is no clear winner but I would give it to Dhoni, as I suspect would most.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
_00_deathscar said:
I can't believe we're still arguing about this.

In Tests, there is NO DOUBT who is far, far better.

In ODIs, it's much closer. Dhoni, ignoring his awful slump, was a better batsman than Gilchrist though the latter had fine innings from time to time. Their keeping was about even. There is no clear winner but I would give it to Dhoni, as I suspect would most.
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Almost all of us have moved on, except one... :laugh:

Like I said, the most interesting thing for me will be to see how this Indian ODI side evolves now. I wonder if Rohit is willing to change his game plan. Shikhar may not be around for the next WC but it will be in India, so he maybe good value here. So many things to consider.. lol
 
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
honestbharani said:
Nah.. I already mentioned I would take Jayasuriya. See, if he is surplus to requirements, I don't need him. And Watson as an ODI player is extremely under rated. And I did not even mention Lara.
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We're probably flogging a dead horse, but Lara gets brought up in these conversations about ODI great openers.

He wasn't a regular ODI opener.
 
CricAddict

CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
ankitj said:
I do believe Dhoni would have had an even better career at 3 or 4 i.e. would have made more centuries and played more memorable knocks . Unlike other lower order batsmen, but like Bevan, he was not just a striker, he was an accumulator capable of shifting gears.
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Yeah, he was amazing at 3 and then suddenly made the decision to go down at 5 to stabilize the middle order. Would have been regarded even higher than now if he had continued batting at 3.
 
Victor Ian

Victor Ian

International Coach
Is Dhoni being a great keeper actually being a thing? Sure, appreciate that he wasnt terrible, but when did the bar get so low for great keeping? Dhoni is not close to gilly as a keeper. The gap is a chasm and that is no disservice to Dhoni.
 
harsh.ag

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Faster hands than Gilly and a master of the unlikely run out. Gilly was better standing back to pacers (wrt to LOs, of course)

 
Daemon

Daemon

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Didn't watch too much of Gilchrist but Dhoni's always been a decent to good keeper, who's stumpings elevate him firmly into the good category. He's definitely had his fair share of spills off the spinners which keeps him out of the great category for me.

In today's context, given the standard of glovemen around, he's easily still one of the best.
 
CricAddict

CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
Victor Ian said:
Is Dhoni being a great keeper actually being a thing? Sure, appreciate that he wasnt terrible, but when did the bar get so low for great keeping? Dhoni is not close to gilly as a keeper. The gap is a chasm and that is no disservice to Dhoni.
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Dhoni is nowhere near great keepers in tests but in ODIs, no one can do the flashy stumpings better than Dhoni which gets him into the ATG level just on pure ODI keeping perspective.
 
CricAddict

CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
Just take Jayasuriya+Dhoni in the subcontinent and Gilchrist+Bevan/Symonds outside of it. Problem sorted. Sachin, Viv, Kohli and ABD make up the rest of the team.
 
Victor Ian

Victor Ian

International Coach
CricAddict said:
Dhoni is nowhere near great keepers in tests but in ODIs, no one can do the flashy stumpings better than Dhoni which gets him into the ATG level just on pure ODI keeping perspective.
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Im not particularly trying to push Dhoni down, it's just that i cant get on board him being a great keeper, even only foccusing on stumpings. Those flashy shots i watched all had being out of position as a key feature. Having to flick the ball behind you, through your legs is shameful (but brilliant). I have seen some great run outs, but nothing out of the ordinary for so many games. If his keeping IS a thing, i think it is not a thing for an all time great team where only one bowler will give Dhoni a chance to be up at the stumps, while the other 3 (or) 4 want an elite catcher behind them.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
srbhkshk said:
dude...

Rohit doesn't need to change anything, what he does works. It works very well.
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Nah... for JAMODIs it does. What he does is extremely high risk high reward for KO games as we have seen. And if he is not gonna change, then the team around has to change to ensure we can react to the inevitable KO game when he eats up 50 balls for a 30 and wastes the powerplay when chasing 330.
 
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