*Official* Pakistan in England 2020

[ImpatientLime]

nope. threw the biggest sook of all the sooks at mt maunganui and hamilton.

the third seamer needs to accdpt his lot in life of doing the hard work with no new ball like the glory boys yet. comprehensively toasted by his opposite that series.

i assume you watched or at least followed the ashes?

if there is one thing that series proved it is that archer is not adverse to hard work and back breaking spells.

 

[trundler]

Nah the NZ series is more recent. And he had a sook in the last test too.

 

[Woodster]

England still need to figure out how best to utilise Archer’s strengths, I personally don’t think that’s by bowling him into the ground so that all he can muster are 84mph spells when we need a blast from him. We don’t have many bowlers (that can stay clear of injury for a couple of consecutive Tests) that bowl spells in excess of 90 mph, Archer can, let’s keep him fresh and use him in short, sharp spells.

 

[NotMcKenzie]

i assume you watched or at least followed the ashes?

if there is one thing that series proved it is that archer is not adverse to hard work and back breaking spells.

From what I saw of the Ashes, Archer had spells where he was bowling mid-130s mixed with spells where he was breaking 140. I'm hazy on exactly what happened, being a year ago and all, but he was bowling a lot quicker when he hit Smith, and I'm not sure whether or not they had developed some sort of on-field rivalry before then or not. I seem to remember that he developed some sort of enmity towards Smith which fired him up. He was still very variable in pace.

 

[honestbharani]

From what I saw of the Ashes, Archer had spells where he was bowling mid-130s mixed with spells where he was breaking 140. I'm hazy on exactly what happened, being a year ago and all, but he was bowling a lot quicker when he hit Smith, and I'm not sure whether or not they had developed some sort of on-field rivalry before then or not. I seem to remember that he developed some sort of enmity towards Smith which fired him up. He was still very variable in pace.

They all play for the same IPL side. Stokes, Buttler, Smith and Archer and mostly were the 4 overseas pros for their side.

 

[Spark]

I can't really recall a cricket who was more intensely psychoanalysed early in their Test career than Archer.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I can't really recall a cricket who was more intensely psychoanalysed early in their Test career than Archer.

Pietersen? For broadly the same slightly icky and parochial reasons too, one suspects.

 

[Spark]

Pietersen? For broadly the same slightly icky and parochial reasons too, one suspects.

I felt it took a bit longer for that stuff to set in with KP, mostly because early media attention was distracted by the whole SA thing and then the 05 Ashes. Archer had barely finished two-three Tests before people started talking about his general attitude and effort.

 

[wpdavid]

I felt it took a bit longer for that stuff to set in with KP, mostly because early media attention was distracted by the whole SA thing and then the 05 Ashes. Archer had barely finished two-three Tests before people started talking about his general attitude and effort.

I'd agree with that. For all the FIGJAM comments about Pietersen, I don't remember anyone seriously questioning his commitment until a few years later, whereas it's pretty much relentless for Archer.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I felt it took a bit longer for that stuff to set in with KP, mostly because early media attention was distracted by the whole SA thing and then the 05 Ashes. Archer had barely finished two-three Tests before people started talking about his general attitude and effort.

Maybe, although with Pietersen it arguably started even before his test career with his rather public reasons for taking the Queen's shilling, his falling out with Notts and the ODI series in RSA before the 05 Ashes.

Think he was probably more in the public's eye than Jofra was before his debut, possibly because most of us thought it'd be a lot longer until we saw Archer in the 3 Lions before the ECB rather conveniently truncated the qualifying period from 7 years to 3.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Most sports psychoanalysis is nonsense. I dont think we've heard any semi credible rumours about his work ethic yet have we? Saying he has a poor attitude or that he doesnt care because he has a whine at times or because his pace varies is quite silly. No one bowls at 140kph all day, nor should they.

 

[Flem274*]

anyone who has played team sports knows there's little worse than a whiner who walks around with the weight of the world on his shoulders during a game. absolutely kills the vibe when you're trying to train and play hard.

there's a difference between an emotional player and a player who drops his head and starts bowling slower.

 

[honestbharani]

Most sports psychoanalysis is nonsense. I dont think we've heard any semi credible rumours about his work ethic yet have we? Saying he has a poor attitude

Yet you do not realize the fact it is nonsense when spouting this rubbish about Ashwin, do you? And FWIW, when a player comes out and sulks and whines about a pitch not being something you can give a 100% on is a pretty clear indicator of **** attitude. It can change perhaps but this is not inconsistent with a lot of his other whining. I know for a fact that at least I am not psycho-analyzing as much as saying that is a **** attitude to take into a game and therefore both England and he himself will be better served if he can spend time outside the bubble playing FC cricket and understanding his own strengths and weaknesses better and also realize that you need to give 100% usually regardless of conditions.

 

[Flem274*]

No one bowls at 140kph all day, nor should they.

no one said this. people are talking because on his first away tour he spent ten days bowling 130kph back of a length and openly sulking when he didn't get any wickets. ben stokes basically cuddled the bloke during a game. bowl faster and pitch it up ****.

they all bowled that pace and length tbf because the english can be idiots away from home, but the likes of broad just got on with it. the only one who showed some fire was stokes.

i think archer has unwittingly become the new face of the english problem though - bowling total trash away from home then they and their media (especially their media) blaming everything - the pitch, the ball, the toss, the sky - but themselves. then when they return home and roll sides with the easy mode ball we're told to say they're world class. "james anderson is the most skillful bowler in the world" etc.

the face used to be james anderson because his lip gets under australian skins and he can't back it up with a kookaburra, but archer seems to be inheriting the crown.

 

[ImpatientLime]

all this talk of his pace and not one mention of the fact he has just come off serious elbow surgery.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Yet you do not realize the fact it is nonsense when spouting this rubbish about Ashwin, do you?

Ashwin's problem in those games wasn't so much psychological as it was an embarrassing lack of awareness of what was expected from him, our most experienced bowler, in the situation i.e. keep the variations to a minimum and drill away on a length.

 

[vcs]

Yeah, it was frustrating to see Moeen Ali do exactly what we had been crying out for Ashwin to do in that Southampton Test match 2nd innings.

 

[Daemon]

Ashwin definitely has a work ethic problem though, deplorable fitness. No way he passed the beep test.

 

[vcs]

Loves his dosas and rasam rice too much. Can't blame him TBH

 

[trundler]

Ethically challenged XI

Gayle
-
Kambli
Gower
M Waugh
Inzimam
-
Ashwin
Archer
-
-

Can't think of many lazy openers or keepers