Graham Thorpe vs Kevin Pietersen

[trundler]

Better test match batsman? One from a prolonged period of being shite for England and the other from a brief stay at the top.

 

[GIMH]

I'm old enough to remember when this was a selection dilemma

(they should have picked both and dropped Bell, but he was averaging 297 tbf)

 

[Red]

Lots of debate about this before the 2005 Ashes (the greatest series I've seen).

There were times KP (along with Freddie) transcended in that series. They made the right selection at that time.

 

[trundler]

Who ended up with the better career though

 

[GIMH]

Lots of debate about this before the 2005 Ashes (the greatest series I've seen).

There were times KP (along with Freddie) transcended in that series. They made the right selection at that time.

Would you not say they should have picked both though, given the series Bell went on to have?

 

[GIMH]

Who ended up with the better career though

Pietersen had the better career, but if you swapped their eras I suspect Thorpe thrives in the stable lineup of the late 00s/early 10s

 

[Red]

Would you not say they should have picked both though, given the series Bell went on to have?

In hindsight yeh. But in the test against Bangladesh prior to the Ashes, Bell had made 162*, so he wasn't going to be dropped at the start of the series.

Mind you, Thorpe hadn't failed. He made 66* in the same innings. That turned out to be Thorpe's last test.

 

[trundler]

Pietersen had the better career, but if you swapped their eras I suspect Thorpe thrives in the stable lineup of the late 00s/early 10s

Yes that's exactly what made me think of this. Thorpe also had a slightly longer career though he did get dropped. Pietersen played more tests in fewer years. Make of that what you will.

 

[Red]

Who ended up with the better career though

KP undoubtedly has more raw and natural talent, but as an overall package I'd take Thorpe if I was going to have to captain one of them for a few years. Their actual output is pretty similar.

 

[wpdavid]

In hindsight yeh. But in the test against Bangladesh prior to the Ashes, Bell had made 162*, so he wasn't going to be dropped at the start of the series.

Mind you, Thorpe hadn't failed. He made 66* in the same innings. That turned out to be Thorpe's last test.

I can't recall why Bell was picked for the Bangladesh tests instead of Pietersen, who had had that absolutely stellar ODI series in SA. I think that Bell had played in the final test the previous summer, but that was about it. Even if they didn't want to pick a test player based on ODI performances, it was obvious that KP was a once in a generation talent who wasn't going to be bullied by the Australians that summer.

It's such a hard question. We all know that KP played innings that Thorpe couldn't have done. But the reverse was true as well. Obviously both should have played in 2005, and we knew that at the time. Was Thorpe carrying some sort of injury maybe?

If pushed, I'd choose Thorpe because he's not going to rip the team apart a few years down the line.


EDIT
Yup, Thorpe had a worsening back injury in 2005 which was a factor in the decision not to play him in the Ashes.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

KP was a rare genius and a better batsman than Thorpe, but also a king sized prat.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Lots of debate about this before the 2005 Ashes (the greatest series I've seen).

There were times KP (along with Freddie) transcended in that series. They made the right selection at that time.

Didn't he drop his first 6 catches or something though lol

 

[Burgey]

Kevin Pietersen is probably the best Pommy (well, you know) bat I've seen since Geoff Boycott, and certainly the best since David Gower. Graham Thorpe isn't.

 

[trundler]

An honest trier who got the best out of him vs a guy who looked like a genius but was unfulfilled ultimately. People usually go for the latter in these things.

Oh and Boycott and KP have stats that almost mirror each other. Similar averages, number of runs, centuries and matches.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Identical batting styles too

 

[Chubb]

KP was a rare genius and a better batsman than Thorpe, but also a king sized prat.

Thorpe was hardly a saint. His personal life was very disruptive for the team and led to him leaving England in the lurch when they needed him in 2002-03 Ashes. That said he was a better team man than Pietersen, not that hard tho.

 

[ImpatientLime]

An honest trier who got the best out of him vs a guy who looked like a genius but was unfulfilled ultimately. People usually go for the latter in these things.

Oh and Boycott and KP have stats that almost mirror each other. Similar averages, number of runs, centuries and matches.

lel

watch some of thorpe's masterpieces on the sub continent and tell me he was just an 'honest trier'. kp was better but thorpe could seriously play.

 

[trundler]

The century at the WACA and double ton were seriously epic too. Was just fitting it into a trope

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah Thorpe was class. KP was better but Im not convinced his averages would look as good as they do if he hadnt been lucky enough to only play test cricket for 8 years.

 

[Moss]

I suppose KP by a whisker, he had that bit of genius which set him apart from England batsmen before and after - but the fact that he averaged 47 to Thorpe's 45 (the majority of whose career was played in a better era for bowlers in general) shows it's pretty close and you could make a very good case for Thorpe. As stated above his efforts on the Pakistan/Sri Lanka tours in 2000/01 were immense. One of his issues before that was his appetite for big runs, he had a very poor conversion rate up to 2000 or so but put that right in the last few years of his career. Was a real pillar of respectability and class in the rubble that was 90's England.

I remember Atherton stating that Thorpe had a lot of difficulty separating his day job and personal life, if all was not well off the field it would badly affect his state of mind while on it. Happened a lot in the 1998-2002 period which along with a recurring back injury saw him miss a number of tests, especially against the Aussies.