The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[vcs]

He bowled one of his best deliveries ever for his first wicket and celebrated in trademark style.

 

[vcs]

Ambrose performed against India in the only match that mattered. Those brutal deliveries against Ganguly and Azhar in the Barbados test in 1997 comes to my mind. Made crucial runs too in that match.
His record against India is a statistical anomaly.

I wish Ambrose had toured in '94, would have been fun to see Sachin take him on. Would definitely have enjoyed the Mohali pitch where Winston Benjamin killed us.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Steyn's numbers against Australia are pretty great imo. Almost 5 wickets a game, avg 27 and many of those tests played on real roads.

The England thing is a little weird. England rolled out some pretty flat decks too on which Englands bowlers got stomped but he still shouldve done better in those conditions. His outswinger shouldve been a far more deadly weapon in England than it actually was in practice.

 

[StephenZA]

Steyn's numbers against Australia are pretty great imo. Almost 5 wickets a game, avg 27 and many of those tests played on real roads.

The England thing is a little weird. England rolled out some pretty flat decks too on which Englands bowlers got stomped but he still shouldve done better in those conditions. His outswinger shouldve been a far more deadly weapon in England than it actually was in practice.

He used to struggle to control the Duke ball in England (similar to Donald). Quite often got to much swing. He never got used to it.

 

[h_hurricane]

I wish Ambrose had toured in '94, would have been fun to see Sachin take him on. Would definitely have enjoyed the Mohali pitch where Winston Benjamin killed us.

History was about to be made on that tour. WI hadn't been beaten in a test series for well over a decade.

I remember packing my bag, leaving for school during the last test, not entering the school compound, and then coming back around 9:30 AM once my parents left for office, to stay glued to TV. Did this for some 2 days.

Then **** happened. So near yet so far.

 

[ankitj]

Ambrose performed against India in the only match that mattered. Those brutal deliveries against Ganguly and Azhar in the Barbados test in 1997 comes to my mind. Made crucial runs too in that match.
His record against India is a statistical anomaly.

How good was Franklyn Rose in that series. Looked like the next big thing from West Indian conveyer belt of pace bowlers.

 

[vcs]

History was about to be made on that tour. WI hadn't been beaten in a test series for well over a decade.

I remember packing my bag, leaving for school during the last test, not entering the school compound, and then coming back around 9:30 AM once my parents left for office, to stay glued to TV. Did this for some 2 days.

Then **** happened. So near yet so far.

BCCI and the cricket authorities really did that generation of cricket fans a disservice by scheduling way too many random ODI tri-series rather than Test series. It was the first time cricket came into a large segment of TV-watching households in India, and we'd be watching some random Pepsi/Coca Cola/Singer Trophy all the time.

 

[h_hurricane]

How good was Franklyn Rose in that series. Looked like the next big thing from West Indian conveyer belt of pace bowlers.

Yep, bowled some great spells. The delivery to get rid of Sidhu in second innings in Barbados was unplayable. Took wickets of some no balls also, it has to be said

 

[honestbharani]

Ambrose performed against India in the only match that mattered. Those brutal deliveries against Ganguly and Azhar in the Barbados test in 1997 comes to my mind. Made crucial runs too in that match.
His record against India is a statistical anomaly.

That 1997 series was just the worst wickets for any series. Flat, slow and low, cant play strokes, cant get wickets, draws galore. And all those rains too. The only test pitch that was a result one was Barbados and we fell apart there.

 

[ankitj]

Sometimes I terrorise casuals with meme opinions from CW. It's great.

Tell any casual subcontinent fan that Wasim Akram is not the greatest fast bowler. You will be told you know nothing about cricket instantly.

 

[trundler]

Tell any casual subcontinent fan that Wasim Akram is not the greatest fast bowler. You will be told you know nothing about cricket instantly.

I also love the Imran's batting is a myth shtick. It receives so much rage it's great. Should try out Stephens Gavaskar was a hack stats butchering sometime.

 

[h_hurricane]

In PakPassion, Imran is rated as the best bowler from subcontinent. For any comparison though, they give equal weightage to tests and ODIs.

So, for Wasim vs Imran, a typical response will be like this.

Tests - Imran
ODIs - Wasim

Overall - Wasim

 

[quincywagstaff]

Pollock is chronically over rated around here tbh. A slower, shorter, less effective McGrath. Very effective operator but you'd pick a ton of blokes over him in the ATG stakes. Like an earlier Anderson really. Decent, but that's it. Watched him for a decade and never, ever feared he would run through an Australian line up, which is reflected in a mid-30s average. Good player, but that's about it. Basically the seam-up Murali of his generation.

Had one great innings in Oz at Adelaide in 97/98 but otherwise fairly disappointing in Oz. Just think the pacy but generally docile Oz pitches magnified his weaknesses and limited his strengths. Also struggled with the increasingly aggressive Oz batting line-up on the 01/02 tour.

 

[quincywagstaff]

The 97-98 series was hard luck for RSA at least from what I seem to remember of that series. But post Hansie-gate, RSA were basically bunnies against Australia till the 434 game happened IMO.

Not really. The 1st & 3rd Tests were quite similar in that there was a great last day century to save the game (Kallis, M Waugh) that cancel each other out effectively.

It was the Sydney Test that was decisive and SA were far too timid. Batting first on a good pitch against an attack that had Bevan as the 4th bowler should've been a big opportunity but despite only losing 5 wickets on the opening day, they didn't even reach 200 runs.

 

[Starfighter]

I wish Ambrose had toured in '94, would have been fun to see Sachin take him on. Would definitely have enjoyed the Mohali pitch where Winston Benjamin killed us.

Kenny wasn't it?

 

[vcs]

In PakPassion, Imran is rated as the best bowler from subcontinent. For any comparison though, they give equal weightage to tests and ODIs.

So, for Wasim vs Imran, a typical response will be like this.

Tests - Imran
ODIs - Wasim

Overall - Wasim

They tie themselves into knots when trying to downgrade Kohli purely based on his WC knockout record, and then struggle when someone points out that it makes Madan Lal > Waqar

 

[vcs]

Kenny wasn't it?

Yep

 

[Howe_zat]

In PakPassion... they give equal weightage to tests and ODIs.

In principle I don't think there's anything wrong with this. After all, it's pretty much what the cricketers themselves do.

I remember CW being very mardy about 'Tendulkar's 100 international hundreds' being a big thing. But for me it made a lot of sense because it's a good description of what Tendulkar was about.

 

[ImpatientLime]

He used to struggle to control the Duke ball in England (similar to Donald). Quite often got to much swing. He never got used to it.

this happens quite often for genuine quicks who move it through the air. mitchell johnson the first example that springs to mind.

 

[morgieb]

Steyn's numbers against Australia are pretty great imo. Almost 5 wickets a game, avg 27 and many of those tests played on real roads.

The England thing is a little weird. England rolled out some pretty flat decks too on which Englands bowlers got stomped but he still shouldve done better in those conditions. His outswinger shouldve been a far more deadly weapon in England than it actually was in practice.

IIRC his first series he struggled to swing the Duke first Test, second Test he was excellent then got injured. Second series I think was down to the pitches, he still managed to have a pretty significant say in that series though. 5 Tests isn't much of a sample size.