The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[ataraxia]

Pollock is chronically over rated around here tbh. A slower, shorter, less effective McGrath. Very effective operator but you'd pick a ton of blokes over him in the ATG stakes. Like an earlier Anderson really. Decent, but that's it. Watched him for a decade and never, ever feared he would run through an Australian line up, which is reflected in a mid-30s average. Good player, but that's about it. Basically the seam-up Murali of his generation.

Might want to correct that.

 

[h_hurricane]

I think he meant mid-30s average vs Australia. Pollock wasn't compared against Mcgrath anyways.

Botham too had a very poor record against WI. Pollock vs Botham in bowling shouldn't even be a discussion tbh. Polly galaxies ahead.

 

[Daemon]

Pollock has such an amazing record against everyone, but then it just goes to **** against Australia. Maybe if McGrath was not Australian he'd have a meh record against Australia too.

 

[ataraxia]

I think he meant mid-30s average vs Australia. Pollock wasn't compared against Mcgrath anyways.

I thought so too just after posting and I tried to delete it (but evidently failed, somehow).

 

[mr_mister]

I think he meant mid-30s average vs Australia. Pollock wasn't compared against Mcgrath anyways.

Botham too had a very poor record against WI. Pollock vs Botham in bowling shouldn't even be a discussion tbh. Polly galaxies ahead.

do you consider Polly galaxies ahead of Dev too?

 

[h_hurricane]

do you consider Polly galaxies ahead of Dev too?

Yep never contested that.

 

[mr_mister]

just checking

 

[h_hurricane]

Botham vs Kapil in bowling is interesting, and that is the right comparison. Kapil has taken 50 wickets more averaging one run extra. And lot less bowling support too. Was amazing against WI unlike Ian. Nothing really between them overall.

Botham was the better batsman and that is pretty much what separates them as all rounders.

 

[mr_mister]

Botham had a 34 wicket series against Australia which is pretty good

 

[h_hurricane]

just checking

lol, cheers. I didn't make any post like Baggers comparing 5 wicket hauls of Kapil and Pollock in which Kapil comes out better. Interestingly, between mid 1979 and mid 1983, he took 17 five wicket hauls, more than what Pollock took in his whole career. Not a good criteria to rate bowlers isn't it, a function of lot of factors not in their control.

 

[mr_mister]

actually Botham had two 30+ wicket series against Australia

Botham's ashes of course in '81 but in '85 he took 31 poles against us too


he brought his A game against us

 

[mr_mister]

lol, cheers. I didn't make any post like Baggers comparing 5 wicket hauls of Kapil and Pollock in which Kapil comes out better. Interestingly, between mid 1979 and mid 1983, he took 17 five wicket hauls, more than what Pollock took in his whole career. Not a good criteria to rate bowlers isn't it, a function of lot of factors not in their control.

yeah of course it has its issues. WPM, 5 fers, all that stuff is greatly propped up if a bowler is operating as a lonewolf without partners to share the spoils with ala Murali

finding the weight between bowling average, strike rate and the other aggregate related criteria when rating bowlers is tricky.

 

[vcs]

Donald, Pollock and Kallis were pretty ordinary against Australia for most of their careers and that is reflected in SA's poor record against them until 2008 or so. Kallis hung around long enough to be able to rectify that to some extent, obviously.

 

[Burgey]

actually Botham had two 30+ wicket series against Australia

Botham's ashes of course in '81 but in '85 he took 31 poles against us too


he brought his A game against us

In 85 he wouldn't have had to. Horrible Australian line up. Probably the weakest Ashes touring side ever to England

 

[h_hurricane]

Donald, Pollock and Kallis were pretty ordinary against Australia for most of their careers and that is reflected in SA's poor record against them until 2008 or so. Kallis hung around long enough to be able to rectify that to some extent, obviously.

Actually, all 3 had good starts against Australia. Donald was great against them down under in 1993-94. Pollock had a superb series in 1997-98 (16 wickets at 21.93). Kallis scored a coming of age hundred in the same series. They declined progressively iirc.

 

[honestbharani]

The 97-98 series was hard luck for RSA at least from what I seem to remember of that series. But post Hansie-gate, RSA were basically bunnies against Australia till the 434 game happened IMO.

 

[trundler]

Pollock has such an amazing record against everyone, but then it just goes to **** against Australia. Maybe if McGrath was not Australian he'd have a meh record against Australia too.

McGrath was a tad less effective against SA. Mid 20s average and about 3 wickets per match.

 

[OverratedSanity]

McGrath was a tad less effective against SA. Mid 20s average and about 3 wickets per match.

18 of his 29 5fers against West Indies and England who were mediocre to dreadful batting lineups for almost his entire career.

 

[trundler]

18 of his 29 5fers against West Indies and England who were mediocre to dreadful batting lineups for almost his entire career.

Every other great pacer has way more 10 wicket hauls. Only 3 in 124 matches.

 

[harsh.ag]

Pollock had 1, Garner 0