The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Red]

Gilchrist
Tendulkar
Richards
Kohli
DeVilliers
Symonds
Kapil
Wasim
Garner
Murali
McGrath

 

[trundler]

stokes v botham as ...

1)batsman
2)fielders

bowling clearly the brexit lad.

Botham was such a fine hitter and X factor player. After 64 tests it turns out he had a nearly identical average with the bat. I know he was a top class bowler at his best and had the 81 series with bat and ball but did he have to carry batting as much Stokes does? Genuine question.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Botham carried the whole team on his back. He says so himself in his last autobiography.

 

[bagapath]

Botham was such a fine hitter and X factor player. After 64 tests it turns out he had a nearly identical average with the bat. I know he was a top class bowler at his best and had the 81 series with bat and ball but did he have to carry batting as much Stokes does? Genuine question.

After 64 tests, Stokes has 9 centuries and 153 wickets with 4 fivefers. One of the best in the world. Possibly the best at the moment.

Botham, after 64 tests had 13 centuries, and 283 wickets with 21 fivefers. One of the best ever. Possibly the best of all time.

 

[trundler]

After 64 tests, Stokes has 9 centuries and 153 wickets with 4 fivefers. One of the best in the world. Possibly the best at the moment.

Botham, after 64 tests had 13 centuries, and 283 wickets with 21 fivefers. One of the best ever. Possibly the best of all time.

**** me that's as good a century ratio as Boycott. And those runs were coming at a very high strike rate. Sub 25 bowling average too. Immense.

 

[Howe_zat]

According to the (retrospective) ICC rankings, Botham at the peak of his powers was the #3 ranked batsman in the world.

 

[h_hurricane]

And then this happened.

38 matches 100 wickets @ 38.06, 1514 runs @ 26.56. A good 8.5 years when he was a moderate downgrade on a whole career Abdul Razzaq.

At the beginning of this phase, Botham was younger than what Stokes is now. Going forward, don't see Stokes being that dross for that long.

 

[Flem274*]

he'd get dropped (you hope). i can see sam curran clicking with the bat in domestic cricket at the very least (much like woakes) and being given a run higher up the order with some general batting shuffling if stokes starts averaging 26.

 

[harsh.ag]

Which player would you chose to complete the XI?

Hobbs
Hutton
Barrington
Hammond

Stokes
Botham
Flintoff

Knott

Barnes
Trueman

You could go for another pacer in Larwood, Anderson, Bedser etc, or a spinner like Laker, Wardle, Swann etc, or another batsman at 5 like Compton, May, Dexter etc, or another all rounder like Rhodes, Greig, maybe Grace etc.

 

[Line and Length]

How many all-rounders do you want in one side?

 

[harsh.ag]

How many all-rounders do you want in one side?

In this case it's more about match winners than all rounders. Possible with England because their specialist ATXI bowlers aren't all that flash

 

[h_hurricane]

Pietersen/Root/Compton should be in the team as a batsman. Stokes at 6, Botham at 7 and Knott at 8. I would have Laker in the team as spinner.

Flintoff falls short imo, disrupts the balance.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Hammond is a perfectly good 5th bowler (as is Dexter). You need more specialists. Compton and Laker should be near certainties imo.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

What h hurricane said

 

[Howe_zat]

England’s best ever attack for me is Trueman, Anderson, Botham, Barnes and Laker. I might change my mind on Laker vs Verity or a Underwood if I knew more about the conditions or opposition but I’m pretty certain of the rest.

 

[trundler]

Essentially agree with Hurricane. If you want to go full meme then throw in Greig instead. Barrington, Hammond, Greig, Stokes, Botham, Knott, Rhodes, Barnes, Trueman. A proper side doesn't need more than 1 of those all rounders though.

 

[Pothas]

And then this happened.

38 matches 100 wickets @ 38.06, 1514 runs @ 26.56. A good 8.5 years when he was a moderate downgrade on a whole career Abdul Razzaq.

At the beginning of this phase, Botham was younger than what Stokes is now. Going forward, don't see Stokes being that dross for that long.

There can't be any player in history that has such a gap between being so good and so bad. There are plenty that were bad and then good but even with them it is probably not as extreme.

 

[bagapath]

hobbs
hutton *
barrington
compton
hammond
botham
knott +
laker
trueman
snow
barnes

would be my first XI

versus

gooch
sutcliffe
root
may *
pietersen
alec stewart +
stokes
rhodes
bedser
anderson
willis

 

[TheJediBrah]

There can't be any player in history that has such a gap between being so good and so bad. There are plenty that were bad and then good but even with them it is probably not as extreme.

It's not even really that bad. During his bad period his batting stats were as good as Mark Ramprakash and his bowling much better than Mohammad Sami, who played nearly 90 Tests between them

 

[Howe_zat]

Yeah quite a few cricketers make a career on those figures. I wouldn’t think of Abdul Razzaq for example as a bad player, just not special.