a massive zebra
International Captain
Or Faulkner if you want a good spinner with real batting ability.
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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
SillyCowCorner1
Moooo
I think it's for the ODI team.
GoodAreasShane
Cricketer Of The Year
Seems to me like a lot of people really cooled on Maharaj after that India tour, perhaps a bit unfairly as he is far from the first rated visiting spinner to struggle in their first Indian tour. The test for him is if he can do what Lyon has done and learn and adapt from past experience. I personally believe he is good enough to do exactly that
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
It says it's just players he played with or against.
ataraxia
International Coach
Which of these is the best?
Aus/NZ:
RB Simpson* / o
WM Lawry /
DG Bradman /
SPD Smith /
AR Border / o
RT Ponting /
AC Gilchrist / +
KR Miller o /
RJ Hadlee o /
CV Grimmett o (I'm mad)
GD McGrath o
WI/SL:
CG Greenidge /
GA Headley /
BC Lara /
GS Sobers* / o
IVA Richards /
CL Walcott / +
ED Weekes / (I like this batting arrangement, 4-5-6-7 all play at a fast pace)
MD Marshall o
MA Holding o
CEL Ambrose o
M Muralitharan o
Eng/Pak:
JB Hobbs /
H Sutcliffe /
L Hutton /
WG Grace* / o
WR Hammond / o
DCS Compton /
Imran Khan o /
APE Knott + /
H Verity o
FS Trueman o
SF Barnes o
SA/Ind:
SM Gavaskar /
BA Richards /
RG Pollock /
SR Tendulkar /
J Kallis / o
AD Nourse* /
AB de Villiers +
MJ Procter o /
A Kumble o
DW Steyn o
AA Donald o
Aus/NZ:
RB Simpson* / o
WM Lawry /
DG Bradman /
SPD Smith /
AR Border / o
RT Ponting /
AC Gilchrist / +
KR Miller o /
RJ Hadlee o /
CV Grimmett o (I'm mad)
GD McGrath o
WI/SL:
CG Greenidge /
GA Headley /
BC Lara /
GS Sobers* / o
IVA Richards /
CL Walcott / +
ED Weekes / (I like this batting arrangement, 4-5-6-7 all play at a fast pace)
MD Marshall o
MA Holding o
CEL Ambrose o
M Muralitharan o
Eng/Pak:
JB Hobbs /
H Sutcliffe /
L Hutton /
WG Grace* / o
WR Hammond / o
DCS Compton /
Imran Khan o /
APE Knott + /
H Verity o
FS Trueman o
SF Barnes o
SA/Ind:
SM Gavaskar /
BA Richards /
RG Pollock /
SR Tendulkar /
J Kallis / o
AD Nourse* /
AB de Villiers +
MJ Procter o /
A Kumble o
DW Steyn o
AA Donald o
TheJediBrah
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England/Imran & West Indies/Murali look ok
SA/Ind look weakest by a margin
but yeah Aus/NZ look pretty OP
SA/Ind look weakest by a margin
but yeah Aus/NZ look pretty OP
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
WI/SL the strongest. Bradman is a huge advantage but 4-7 of WI > 4-7 Aus and same with the fast bowling for me. And spinner-wise, Murali > Grimmett. So I think WI/SL side is comfortably the strongest overall.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nah it's not that close.
Miller is an interesting choice, I can think of better Aussie quicks but that Australia/NZ bowling attack isn't far behind the WI one. The batting is way ahead though. Smith is Sobers equal and Bradman is 2x ATG batsmen in one.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Well, I don't think Smith is greater than Sobers at all, but even assuming it to be so, the remaining of the Windies line up still better than the Aussie one. And Murali negates almost half of the Bradman advantage anyways. Like I said, close but clear leader is the Windies + Murali one, for me.
TheJediBrah
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More than fine, everyone entitled to their opinion.
For me Murali isn't even much of a factor. Can't bat and Aus have a spinner not even picked that is at least as good as, arguably better than him. Aus/NZ tail is way, way stronger too. Keith Miller at 8? That's ridiculous.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I only said that Smith was Sobers equal, not that he was better than him.
Let's do a ridiculously oversimplified comparison of the two sides on primary skills only:
Simpson = Greenidge
Lawry < Headley
Bradman >>> Lara
Smith = Sobers
Border = Richards
Ponting = Weekes
Gilchrist > Walcott
Miller < Marshall
Hadlee > Holding
Grimmett < Muralitharan
McGrath = Ambrose
Just on primary skills Aus/NZ are way ahead of WI/SL. Factor in the batting difference in the tail between the two sides and it's not even close.
Let's do a ridiculously oversimplified comparison of the two sides on primary skills only:
Simpson = Greenidge
Lawry < Headley
Bradman >>> Lara
Smith = Sobers
Border = Richards
Ponting = Weekes
Gilchrist > Walcott
Miller < Marshall
Hadlee > Holding
Grimmett < Muralitharan
McGrath = Ambrose
Just on primary skills Aus/NZ are way ahead of WI/SL. Factor in the batting difference in the tail between the two sides and it's not even close.
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Out of interest I added up all the career averages (obviously averages alone isn't the definitive determinant of which is better, but it's about as close as you can get to one)
Aus/NZ: Batting = 492.16 total
Top 4 bowlers: 91.11 total
WI/SL: Batting = 438.43 total
Top 4 bowlers: 88.33 total
This (admittedly limited) metric would indicate that the bowling is pretty similar, maybe give WI/SL the edge due to having Sobers, a better 5th bowler. But they are also more limited in terms of conditions you would think, largely with the Murali factor.
Aus/NZ comfortably ahead with batting, mainly due to (as stephen points out) the Bradman factor it would seem. Take Bradman out and the teams would look pretty equal on paper.
It would take a bit of mental gymnastics to claim that Aus/NZ aren't significantly stronger tbh
Aus/NZ: Batting = 492.16 total
Top 4 bowlers: 91.11 total
WI/SL: Batting = 438.43 total
Top 4 bowlers: 88.33 total
This (admittedly limited) metric would indicate that the bowling is pretty similar, maybe give WI/SL the edge due to having Sobers, a better 5th bowler. But they are also more limited in terms of conditions you would think, largely with the Murali factor.
Aus/NZ comfortably ahead with batting, mainly due to (as stephen points out) the Bradman factor it would seem. Take Bradman out and the teams would look pretty equal on paper.
It would take a bit of mental gymnastics to claim that Aus/NZ aren't significantly stronger tbh
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
For me, picking Miller means you have 5 legit bowlers, and lets you play 2 proper spinners. If one of those spinners is close to an all rounder, even better balance is struck.
Simpson
Lawry
Bradman
Ponting
Miller
Border
Gilchrist
Benaud/Vettori
Hadlee
Warne
McGrath
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
And it would take a lot of mental gymnastics to claim they are.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Ok, so
Greenidge > Simpson
Headley > Lawry
Lara <<< Bradman
Sobers > Smith
Richards > Border
Weekes > Ponting
Walcott > Gilchrist
Miller = Marshall
Hadlee > Holding
Murali > Grimmett
Ambrose = McGrath
I mean, its pretty clear which the stronger side overall is, AFAIC. It really depends on how weight you wanna give Bradman. As great as he is, I think as a side, the Windies side can get on top of the Aussie one (calling them as such coz they both have only one from outside their teams).
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
What about Greg Chappell over either Ponting or Border though? I actually think GC would be closer in my comparison to Richards than either Border or Ponting.