***Official*** English Football Season 2019-20

[sledger]

Haha, all I really remember about that particular incident was the way Gazza's reaction to being nixed was to get drunk and smash up Hoddle's hotel room.

Edit: Or was that just an urban myth/fake news? Can't actually remember, but sounds plausible enough in my head.

 

[wpdavid]

The mention of Hoddle gives me the opportunity to repost this piece about England's 1998 WC campaign.

That looks such a good read. Maybe save it for later when I'm not supposed to be working.

Like everyone, I was impressed with the 0-0 in Rome that took us to France. Also the draw with Argentina when we played over an hour with 10 vs 11. Perhaps his man management flaws would have become a bigger problem as the players who emerged from the mid-1990s became superstars rather than youngsters happy to be international players. otoh, I reckon that with Hoddle in charge we wouldn't have shipped three goals against Portugal and Romania in the 2000 euros. And I don't think that he would have been as dominated by the celebrity status of the golden generation as SGE became. All rose-tinted guesswork of course.

 

[sledger]

Sven's run as England manager quite underrated I think. People forget how much of a big deal he was when he took the job. Definitely made some very questionable decisions at key moments, and things had got pretty stale by the end, but also got jibbed pretty badly by bad luck/injuries/freak goals/players getting stupidly sent off/the media turning on him/people like scaly hating on him because he was foreign.

Edit: His reputation has absolutely gone down the toilet now obviously, but at the time he actually had a lot of gravitas. It was the last time I can recall thinking that England simultaneously had both a manager with some serious gravitas, and a squad that was actually really good. Capello another manager who was clearly top bracket, but by the time he came in the squad was pretty cack.

 

[wpdavid]

Sven's run as England manager quite underrated I think. People forget how much of a big deal he was when he took the job. Definitely made some very questionable decisions at key moments, and things had got pretty stale by the end, but also got jibbed pretty badly by bad luck/injuries/freak goals/players getting stupidly sent off/the media turning on him/people like scaly hating on him because he was foreign.

Broadly agree, and we've only had one better manager in this century. Talking of whom, I think it was Southgate who made that 'Churchill vs Ian Duncan-Smith' comment after the 2002 loss to Brazil. I suspect that Gareth wouldn't entirely hold those views now.

 

[duffer]

So is Matty Longstaff anywhere near as talented as Sean? I see we've been linked with him on a free.

 

[sledger]

Broadly agree, and we've only had one better manager in this century. Talking of whom, I think it was Southgate who made that 'Churchill vs Ian Duncan-Smith' comment after the 2002 loss to Brazil. I suspect that Gareth wouldn't entirely hold those views now.

Yeah, that's right.

To be fair, that was one of Sven's biggest worst moments. Bad luck with the freak goal, but England had 45 mins to throw the kitchen sink at Brazil and did nothing with it. Just totally fizzled out. Squad possibly knackered after a fairly intense group stage I suppose.

 

[wpdavid]

Yeah, that's right.

To be fair, that was one of Sven's biggest worst moments. Bad luck with the freak goal, but England had 45 mins to throw the kitchen sink at Brazil and did nothing with it. Just totally fizzled out. Squad possibly knackered after a fairly intense group stage I suppose.

Yeah, it was really disappointing. I tend to quote the 2002 WC as a case study in how Germany do so much better than us. They had their worst side in ages but still made the final. We had our best side in ages but couldn't see off 10-man opponents in the quarters.

 

[sledger]

Yeah, it was really disappointing. I tend to quote the 2002 WC as a case study in how Germany do so much better than us. They had their worst side in ages but still made the final. We had our best side in ages but couldn't see off 10-man opponents in the quarters.

That German side was not nearly as bad as is often made out imo. I think people at the time wrote it off simply because it was full of players most had never heard of. But it was actually mostly very serviceable.

Edit: though it did massively benefit from having a ridiculously in form Oliver Khan mind you.

 

[wpdavid]

That German side was not nearly as bad as is often made out imo. I think people at the time wrote it off simply because it was full of players most had never heard of. But it was actually mostly very serviceable.

Also due to the 5-1 in Munich, I suppose.

 

[Uppercut]

That looks such a good read. Maybe save it for later when I'm not supposed to be working.

Like everyone, I was impressed with the 0-0 in Rome that took us to France. Also the draw with Argentina when we played over an hour with 10 vs 11. Perhaps his man management flaws would have become a bigger problem as the players who emerged from the mid-1990s became superstars rather than youngsters happy to be international players. otoh, I reckon that with Hoddle in charge we wouldn't have shipped three goals against Portugal and Romania in the 2000 euros. And I don't think that he would have been as dominated by the celebrity status of the golden generation as SGE became. All rose-tinted guesswork of course.

I would have agreed before rewatching, but England's defending isn't bad at all against Portugal. The first two goals are absolute screamers, the third is a bit loose but over the game they looked pretty well-drilled against an excellent attack. If anything they were too rigid and not attacking enough.

The half-time punditry is pretty funny for its total refusal to acknowledge that Portugal also get a say in the game. Figo thwacks one in from 35 yards and they spend the whole time talking about Adams not closing him down quick enough, which is just wrong.

 

[wpdavid]

The half-time punditry is pretty funny for its total refusal to acknowledge that Portugal also get a say in the game. Figo thwacks one in from 35 yards and they spend the whole time talking about Adams not closing him down quick enough, which is just wrong.

tbh that was my thought too watching the goals yesterday
Yes it was an outstanding shot, but we did give him a fair bit of time and space and we all knew that Figo was capable of that sort of thing. Whether it's down to Adams or the lack of protection in front of him is a moot point.
But I take your broader point though.

One of those 'what if ..' thoughts that struck me earlier was if Ronaldo had been born 10 years earlier. Playing in front of that midfield, you'd think they would have been unstoppable. Bit like similar lines of thought involving Romario being born ten years earlier and playing the 1982 Brazil side.

 

[Uppercut]

tbh that was my thought too watching the goals yesterday
Yes it was an outstanding shot, but we did give him a fair bit of time and space and we all knew that Figo was capable of that sort of thing. Whether it's down to Adams or the lack of protection in front of him is a moot point.
But I take your broader point though.

One of those 'what if ..' thoughts that struck me earlier was if Ronaldo had been born 10 years earlier. Playing in front of that midfield, you'd think they would have been unstoppable. Bit like similar lines of thought involving Romario being born ten years earlier and playing the 1982 Brazil side.

Stepping forward to someone like Figo so far out would be a huge mistake. Those situations are lose-lose for defenders because you can't defend both the shot and the space in behind, and if he shoots and scores you "stood off", and if you close him down and he goes past you, you "dove in". The right thing to do is to defend the space in behind until he fully commits to the shot, which Adams does. It goes through his legs which is mostly unlucky, though if you were being hyper-critical you could say his body shape isn't perfect.

Criticising the midfield for not offering protection is completely fair, though. You could also say the defence were too deep to start with, but that wouldn't suggest a team playing football that was too attacking.

 

[sledger]

Breaking the he defensive line to charge out is right out of the Thomas Vermaelen playbook. Really bad idea. Once opposition teams realise you have a penchant for it you become really easy to exploit.

 

[Pothas]

That Portugal team seems so much more likeable than the Scolari one that came a few years later.

 

[sledger]

From what I remember the Scolari Portugal side was really mechanical. Plenty of talented players but just played in a really direct and uninspiring way. A bit like a Mourinho team.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Netherlands played an absolute dirtfest against a Scolari side as I recall. one of those where the ref handed out sixteen bookings and still did a pretty decent job

 

[Uppercut]

Portugal were especially bad for it but almost every international team went that way after Euro 2000. One of the main reasons there hasn’t been a better tournament since, at least not in terms of good attacking football.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

in the Pothas-inspired Euro rewatch, I'm doing rump-Yugoslavia v Slovenia

surprisingly well-tempered considering

 

[Furball]

Yeah, that's right.

To be fair, that was one of Sven's biggest worst moments. Bad luck with the freak goal, but England had 45 mins to throw the kitchen sink at Brazil and did nothing with it. Just totally fizzled out. Squad possibly knackered after a fairly intense group stage I suppose.

I love that English people refuse to acknowledge that Ronaldinho meant it.

 

[Furball]

in the Pothas-inspired Euro rewatch, I'm doing rump-Yugoslavia v Slovenia

surprisingly well-tempered considering

That was a great group.