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***Official*** English Football Season 2019-20

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Was trying to figure out why Phil Neville was playing. Turns out Le Saux was injured and then I could not really think of anyone else.
I think you're probably right; I don't remember it being controversial at the time. Maybe ironic that Le Saux had been at fault for the decisive goal when Romania had beaten us in the WC two years previously.

In case anyone else wonders about Ashley Cole, apparently he only played his first PL game in May 2000.
 
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I think you're probably right; I don't remember it being controversial at the time. Maybe ironic that Le Saux had been at fault for the decisive goal when Romania had beaten us in the WC two years previously.

In case anyone else wonders about Ashley Cole, apparently he only played his first PL game in May 2000.
Gareth Barry was in the squad, he was a perfectly fine LB at the time. Though I don't remember many calling for his inclusion. You'd think Phil Neville would be an injury-crisis LB option at best, but the position wasn't taken all that seriously. Most people just wanted someone as unflashy as possible. Probably also a tendency to default to the players at big clubs when there wasn't quite so much televised football.
 

Red_Ink_Squid

Global Moderator
Gareth Barry was in the squad, he was a perfectly fine LB at the time. Though I don't remember many calling for his inclusion. You'd think Phil Neville would be an injury-crisis LB option at best, but the position wasn't taken all that seriously. Most people just wanted someone as unflashy as possible. Probably also a tendency to default to the players at big clubs when there wasn't quite so much televised football.
I remember lots of calls for Barry over Neville ...but I was at secondary school in Aston at the time so appreciate my experience was probably not representative. Still got a soft spot for him.
 

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You might be right tbf, I wouldn't really know either.

It's a very conservative selection from a manager with Keegan's reputation. In Michael Cox's book he argues that Keegan's 95/96 Newcastle team were actually pretty good defensively and lost the title because United scored more goals. I believe it more having watched his England side. The football doesn't match his rhetoric at all.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Yeah I think they got the "entertainers" moniker because a couple of the games that Newcastle side played that happened to be televised were great games and partly from interviews with Keegan himself. I don't think it really fits overall. Their defensive record was reasonably good, and they scored less goals than United and Liverpool in the 95/96 season which was probably the biggest difference.
 

Red_Ink_Squid

Global Moderator
Truthfully I can't remember the football England played under him very well at all. My memory of the Portugal game for example is just of how classy the Portuguese midfield was rather than of any of our failings.

The Newcastle thing is interesting as my memory fits the popular narrative of them being very attacking, but I've never revisited it. Michael Cox is usually pretty insightful (I've not read his book) so I'm very willing to believe his take is more accurate than my memories from growing up.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Truthfully I can't remember the football England played under him very well at all. My memory of the Portugal game for example is just of how classy the Portuguese midfield was rather than of any of our failings.

The Newcastle thing is interesting as my memory fits the popular narrative of them being very attacking, but I've never revisited it. Michael Cox is usually pretty insightful (I've not read his book) so I'm very willing to believe his take is more accurate than my memories from growing up.
My memory of them matches with yours, with the caveat that my memory going back that far is a bit vague. But almost every televised game that I can remember them playing was a great game. However, looking at their attacking and defensive records it doesn't really tally with the reputation, and Keegan did make some notably conservative selections.

Not something I have a strong view on, due to the caveat above. I don't think they were boring at all, but not notably more entertaining than either of their main challengers.
 

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My memory of them matches with yours, with the caveat that my memory going back that far is a bit vague. But almost every televised game that I can remember them playing was a great game. However, looking at their attacking and defensive records it doesn't really tally with the reputation, and Keegan did make some notably conservative selections.

Not something I have a strong view on, due to the caveat above. I don't think they were boring at all, but not notably more entertaining than either of their main challengers.
I think Cox also said that they were much more solid in the first half of the season, but introducing Asprilla messed up the side's balance. Whereas United were the opposite, tightening up after Christmas. Everyone remembers the second half of the season more than the first, so it feels like Newcastle were constantly losing 4-3 while United were winning 1-0.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
My memory of them matches with yours, with the caveat that my memory going back that far is a bit vague. But almost every televised game that I can remember them playing was a great game. However, looking at their attacking and defensive records it doesn't really tally with the reputation, and Keegan did make some notably conservative selections.

Not something I have a strong view on, due to the caveat above. I don't think they were boring at all, but not notably more entertaining than either of their main challengers.
Haha I misread your sentence, and thought you had suddenly become Glenn Hoddle for a moment there.

E.g. "Them players", "Them goals", "Them fouls" etc.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
I think Cox also said that they were much more solid in the first half of the season, but introducing Asprilla messed up the side's balance. Whereas United were the opposite, tightening up after Christmas. Everyone remembers the second half of the season more than the first, so it feels like Newcastle were constantly losing 4-3 while United were winning 1-0.
I think Aspirlla is one of the reasons why Newcastle are remembered romantically as being so exciting tbh. Invariably every highlights package from that era involves Newcastle losing 4-3 to Liverpool, Keegan having his "Ah'd luv it" meltdown, and Asprilla doing loads of backflips. Definitely creates the perception that they were an unpredictable and extravagant side, even if they probably weren't.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51491041

Some really surprising stats in that article. Arsenal's classic Invincible XI only starting 2 games together being one of them
I think this just emphasises how strong some of Arsenal's reserve/rotation players were at that time tbh.

Reyes, Wiltord, Kanu, and Clichy (yeah, even Clichy) were all really useful options as subs, or as players who could come in and play the odd match.

Keown was probably a bit past it by that stage, but still really good.

And then Edu and Parlour were both just excellent midfielders who could have got into most sides in the league.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
I think Aspirlla is one of the reasons why Newcastle are remembered romantically as being so exciting tbh. Invariably every highlights package from that era involves Newcastle losing 4-3 to Liverpool, Keegan having his "Ah'd luv it" meltdown, and Asprilla doing loads of backflips. Definitely creates the perception that they were an unpredictable and extravagant side, even if they probably weren't.
I think the signing of Asprilla says more about Keegan's poor decision-making rather than a consistently gung-ho approach. It appeared to unbalance the side and may well have been a factor in Newcastle's inability to hold onto their lead and win the league. Reminds me a bit of Malcolm Allison doing the same at Man City in 1972. They looked odds on to win the old first division, but lost their way after he signed Rodney Marsh. Keegan would have been aware of that, having been part of the Liverpool team that came within a point of winning the league after City fell away. And I do think that Keegan's mental frailties were a factor too. That meltdown must have transmitted to the players, at least to some extent. Those of us who remember him as a player will know that he sometimes had his toys out of the pram moments. Notably after Robson dropped him following the 1982 WC, and previously making himself unavailable for England after some perceived snub by the manager.

Clearly Keegan was a decent club manager though. Even allowing for all the above, he took Newcastle to their best league positions since I have no idea when. Didn't they finish 2nd in 1997 too? But probably out of his depth at international level. I think he said as much when he resigned actually, and I didn't disagree with him at the time. Such a shame that Hoddle threw the job away with those stupid comments about disabled people.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Keegan a good motivator, but tactically quite limited, seems to be the popular view. Upmarket Neil Warnock, who was/is also less of a ****.
 

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The mention of Hoddle gives me the opportunity to repost this piece about England's 1998 WC campaign.

There were 28 England players at the training base in La Manga, with six to be left out of the final squad. Everyone had a scheduled five-minute appointment, which led to an excruciating afternoon that had the feel of a biblical cull. It was typical Hoddle: a decent intention – to tell everyone man to man – undone by clumsy execution. David Beckham later said it was “like a meat market”. A meat market with a peculiar jazz sax soundtrack. “Since that day when I finalised the squad, it has been written that Kenny G was playing in my room when I told the players the bad news,” said Hoddle in the Daily Mail in 2010. “Where does this nonsense come from?” It actually came from Hoddle’s World Cup diary, a fascinating insight into a brilliant, flawed coach with an almost comical lack of self-awareness.
 

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