The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread (white ball edition)

[stephen]

I'm about to wax lyrical about Imran, Hadlee, Botham and Engineer, just as soon as the silent draft is over.

 

[h_hurricane]

When was the last time an Aussie poster here talked up a non-Aussie player, save may be the West Indians like Viv Richards? (not counting PEWS as an Aussie poster)

With Jimmy in this forum, you should have never made that statement Ankit One thing is for sure though, there are far more Symondistas in this forum than Sachinistas.

 

[TheJediBrah]

When was the last time an Aussie poster here talked up a non-Aussie player, save may be the West Indians like Viv Richards? (not counting PEWS as an Aussie poster)

With Jimmy in this forum, you should have never made that statement Ankit One thing is for sure though, there are far more Symondistas in this forum than Sachinistas.

Funny how your point of view can affect perception of this sort of thing. I was literally just thinking the other day how overwhelming the bias of Indian posters on here has been lately. Though tbf it's usually the same 2 or 3 who just seem to be posting more, if anything.

 

[ankitj]

Agree. A broad brush is pretty much always wrong. I couldn't find an eloquent way to express my boredom with constant discussions about why some Aussie cricketer is better than other cricketer generally regarded as better in a given discipline.

 

[TheJediBrah]

This whole Symonds thing has been pretty tiresome tbh. I'm more interested in the discussion re. the value of fielding ability in general but no one can seem to separate the topic from Symonds himself in their minds.

I've been arguing (sort of) pro-Symonds ITT not so much because I really think he should be in an ATG team, but more so in response to some posting from others that has ben severely underrating him as a player

 

[ankitj]

Funny how your point of view can affect perception of this sort of thing. I was literally just thinking the other day how overwhelming the bias of Indian posters on here has been lately. Though tbf it's usually the same 2 or 3 who just seem to be posting more, if anything.

How much discussion here has happened on merit of picking a fringe Indian player in ATG XI like Rohit or Kapil vs. how much for Symonds? It's become a meme now.

 

[TheJediBrah]

How much discussion here has happened on merit of picking a fringe Indian player in ATG XI like Rohit or Kapil vs. how much for Symonds. It's become a meme now.

Funny you should ask, as it wasn't too long ago where multiple threads were inundated with pro-Kapil spamming in almost that exact context IIRC that made this whole Symonds thing look tame by comparison

And from what I've seen it seems like an unfair anti-Symonds sentiment that is fuelling this discussion just as much, if not more than pro-Symonds bias

 

[Daemon]

Great fielder can potentially save hundreds of runs and decide a game. You can't put a distinct value on it or claim that anything is "obviously wrong".

If Jonty Rhodes runs out Brian Lara for 10 and his team wins by 5 runs then we'll see how important fielding can be.

The original post you made that started all this clearly separated the runs saved from run outs and catches that cannot be measured from the type of run saving you attributed the 20-30 runs to.

That is the only thing I’m disputing. Nobody disagrees that fielding can, and often does, change a game.

 

[CricAddict]

Every single person here says that he is bored of talking about Symonds but continues talking about Symonds.

 

[honestbharani]

The real topic should be why the hell should we NOT have Sachin and Lara open the batting for an ATG World XI?

 

[Bolo.]

This guess is very wrong. On average only three positions are truly important at a given point in an ODI game? Seriously?

Backward point, cover, midwicket are vital at all stages at a game. Deep midwicket and deep square leg are important at most stages of a game, as are long-on and long-off. Again, what constitutes a great fielder in a position varies by position (at some you want great anticipation and reflexes/catching, at others you want sheer athleticism, and a strong, accurate throwing arm) but it's just amazing to me that we are actually suggesting that only three positions in a ODI game are likely to see action at any given point in time, that is just not credible.

Of course this is not credible. You are the only one suggesting it. Any place you have a fielder is reasonably likely to see action at any given point. My point is that key positions are disproportionally valuable. This is true both in how likely the ball is to go to to them and in how much difference a quality fielder will make at that position- a ball is far more likely to go to a 3rd man than a slip, but having a good slip is of far greater value.

The greatest delta between good and great will clearly be the ring fielders early on, both because the get the ball so much and because the difference between good and great is so notable for close fielders.

You are listing a bunch of positions as critical, but bear in mind that you wont ever have people in all of those positions at the same time, and that they are important in different games/ at different stages of the game. You dont need a great fielder at a position that you arent even putting a fielder.

It's not how many times the ball goes to them. It's the impact having 3/4/5 of them in the inner ring makes. It's psychological for the batsmen, as much as anything.

Makes sense, but I dont think it really goes against my point. The jump in psychological impact of 2 to 3 great fielders is far greater than from 4 to 5. I reckon the main impact comes from a wall of awesome off side fielders, where a bat is never sure he will actually get runs by playing normal shots against typical bowling lines.

 

[CricAddict]

The real topic should be why the hell should we NOT have Sachin and Lara open the batting for an ATG World XI?

Mainly because ODI requires 5 or at least 4.5 good bowlers to bowl 50 overs. If we have Sachin and Lara opening, we have to create that 5 out of 9 remaining places. If you can do that (which is fairly possible), then you can have those 2 open but many like me have Jayasuriya or Gilchrist opening instead of Lara to get that 0.5 out of the way.

 

[honestbharani]

Well, I like having Kapil at 7 and Sachin and Viv are more than good enough to be 6th and 7th bowlers.


Sachin
Lara
Virat
Viv
AB
MSD
Kapil
Wasim
Warne
Ambrose
Murali


AB's mediums are pretty decent too on a green track as the 4th seamer.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Gilchrist
Tendulkar
Kohli
Viv
AbdV
Symonds
Watson
Warne
Starc
Ambrose
McGrath

 

[h_hurricane]

An ATG Aussie CW XI

Jimmy101
Mr_Mister
Spark(c)
Aussie Tragic
Red Hill
Stephen
TJB
Coronis
StarFighter
The Big Bambino
Burgey

Jimmy and MM provide the much needed calming assurance at the top. Spark controls the proceedings in the middle order with an explosive lineup to follow. Stephen is a master of tricky chases with TJB providing great support. Burgey leads the bowling pack with a great skill to hunt down opposition's best batsman when it matters the most.

One could create a second ATG XI as well but this will be difficult to beat for me.

 

[honestbharani]

Well, I like having Kapil at 7 and Sachin and Viv are more than good enough to be 6th and 7th bowlers.


Sachin
Lara
Virat
Viv
AB
MSD
Kapil
Wasim
Warne
Ambrose
Murali


AB's mediums are pretty decent too on a green track as the 4th seamer.

Though I do want an out and out quick bowler to fire some of the opposition batsmen out instead of Ambrose. I dunno if I should go with Starc, Lee or Akhtar though. Akhtar was the quickest, Lee possibly the fittest, and Starc is a bit of everything. I would probably go with Akhtar juz for the sheer theatre.

 

[ankitj]

Funny you should ask, as it wasn't too long ago where multiple threads were inundated with pro-Kapil spamming in almost that exact context IIRC that made this whole Symonds thing look tame by comparison

And from what I've seen it seems like an unfair anti-Symonds sentiment that is fuelling this discussion just as much, if not more than pro-Symonds bias

Yup, I give it to you. There was some ridiculous discussion on Kapil's weaker suite i.e. batting too, which mirrors perfectly discussion on Symonds' weaker suite.

 

[CricAddict]

An ATG Aussie CW XI

Jimmy101
Mr_Mister
Spark(c)
Aussie Tragic
Red Hill
Stephen
TJB
Coronis
StarFighter
The Big Bambino
Burgey

Jimmy and MM provide the much needed calming assurance at the top. Spark controls the proceedings in the middle order with an explosive lineup to follow. Stephen is a master of tricky chases with TJB providing great support. Burgey leads the bowling pack with a great skill to hunt down opposition's best batsman when it matters the most.

One could create a second ATG XI as well but this will be difficult to beat for me.

You have left out the Bradman, PEWS. I don't think he has retired yet.

 

[Daemon]

An ATG Aussie CW XI

Jimmy101
Mr_Mister
Spark(c)
Aussie Tragic
Red Hill
Stephen
TJB
Coronis
StarFighter
The Big Bambino
Burgey

Jimmy and MM provide the much needed calming assurance at the top. Spark controls the proceedings in the middle order with an explosive lineup to follow. Stephen is a master of tricky chases with TJB providing great support. Burgey leads the bowling pack with a great skill to hunt down opposition's best batsman when it matters the most.

One could create a second ATG XI as well but this will be difficult to beat for me.

Gotta make room for PEWS, the ruthless run accumulating machine. Social also likely to buy his way into the XI through his nefarious connections in the middle east.

Presume Burgey is the finger spinner?

 

[jimmy101]

Every single person here says that he is bored of talking about Symonds but continues talking about Symonds.

You could turn it into a drinking game at this point. Take a shot when you read the word Symonds.