The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread (white ball edition)

[Victor Ian]

I want someone to compose a field to stop a rampant Kohli and DeVilliers facing McGrath. No wickets left. 12 to win.

I imagine it has boonie in that silly position
Ponting, rhodes, symonds....probably DeVilliers is good enough to field his own bat too.

 

[Migara]

I want someone to compose a field to stop a rampant Kohli and DeVilliers facing McGrath. No wickets left. 12 to win.

I imagine it has boonie in that silly position
Ponting, rhodes, symonds....probably DeVilliers is good enough to field his own bat too.

It would be foolish to bowl McGrath in that instance. Akram or Garner. With Garner you know what is coming by examining the field, but still cannot do a thing. With Akram, the field doesn't give a hint what he's going to bowl.

 

[Victor Ian]

The key was to provide a field that will allow McGrath to defend the target. But i cant see why anyone cant mix up the bowler as part of their field.

 

[honestbharani]

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest that you didn't think that.

Though I understand how you must feel when stephen says he doesn't recall ever thinking that Tendulkar was much better than Mark Waugh

Doesn't surprise me that all you got as a response is biased drivel with no factual data to back up. The habitual stupid post of the page by TJB.......


What I said is absolutely true, btw.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Ok, then the fact was ignored that Jayasuriya bowled many of his spells at the death and still have a good ER.

I am not sold on Symonds as No 7 or as 5th bowler. I'd rather have Kallis at #3 / #5, and have him as the 5th bowler. Flintoff is a good choice, but don't think he is as good as Kallis as an ODI cricketer. On Asian conditions, Jayasuriya or Kapil easily fits the bill.

And yes, there is Shakib Al Hasan too. When such talent is around why Symnonds?

Losing a lot of credibility by suggesting Kallis. That's laughable tbh. Flintoff is a far better option in every way.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Doesn't surpise me all you got as a response is biased drivel with no factual data to back up. The habitual stupid post of the page by TJB.......


What I said is absolutely true, btw.

It's nice to have you back tbh. You posting like an adult for that week was concerning to say the least

edit: let me guess, "no you"

 

[h_hurricane]

Symonds has by far the best bowling average from either side in both the WC finals he played.

2/7 in 2003 WC final and 1/6 in 2007 WC final. Overall 3 wickets @ 4.33 !

Was never dismissed with the bat either in a WC final. Move over Glenn ! Andrew is opening the bowling for me in my WC final side.

 

[DriveClub]

Sanath, Yuvraj, Klusener all rounders who won man of the series in world cups. But mysteriously Symonds is still a better bowler.

 

[ankitj]

The mistake is picking him at 7 and as 5th bowler. I don't hate it as much as the rest of you but it's definitely not his ideal position. As I said earlier if I'm picking him it's ahead of Bevan or Dhoni, depending on where the game is played. In Asia I'd keep Dhoni, but outside of Asia Dhoni's gone.

You are confusing Dhoni's test record with his ODI record. Dhoni has a pretty solid record outside Asia too in ODIs.

 

[harsh.ag]

Definitely have Symonds over Bevan at 6 imo. Much more of a power hitter and provides a better 6th bowling option.

Dhoni vs Symonds at 6 depends on your choice of keeper. Symonds a better power hitter and provides the 6th bowling option. Dhoni provides a combo of great chasing and power hitting. But if you want Dhoni as the keeper, then that's that.

 

[stephen]

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest that you didn't think that.

Though I understand how you must feel when stephen says he doesn't recall ever thinking that Tendulkar was much better than Mark Waugh

Hey I never said that. Tendulkar was better than Waugh. The gap is not as wide as is commonly made out, but it's still there.

 

[stephen]

You are confusing Dhoni's test record with hia ODI record. Dhoni has a pretty solid record outside Asia too in ODIs.

What's interesting about Dhoni is that he was ordinary for years against Australia in Australia until his very last series there when he was over the hill. He had a great series which basically won it for India and guaranteed him his spot in the world cup. It was such a good performance that it basically fixed the biggest hole in his record and possibly cost India the cup.

 

[h_hurricane]

What's interesting about Dhoni is that he was ordinary for years against Australia in Australia until his very last series there when he was over the hill. He had a great series which basically won it for India and guaranteed him his spot in the world cup. It was such a good performance that it basically fixed the biggest hole in his record and possibly cost India the cup.

India would have still picked Dhoni for the WC even if he had failed in that series.

 

[honestbharani]

It's nice to have you back tbh. You posting like an adult for that week was concerning to say the least

edit: let me guess, "no you"

Mate, why waste the edit? That entire post was you saying the same about me. And again, get back to me when you have an actual point, which has not yet happened on this topic.

Sanath, Yuvraj, Klusener all rounders who won man of the series in world cups. But mysteriously Symonds is still a better bowler.

I wonder how many MOTM Symonds has gotten for bowling. I can recall 3 for Sachin right off the top of my head and a couple for Sourav.

 

[stephen]

Definitely have Symonds over Bevan at 6 imo. Much more of a power hitter and provides a better 6th bowling option.

Dhoni vs Symonds at 6 depends on your choice of keeper. Symonds a better power hitter and provides the 6th bowling option. Dhoni provides a combo of great chasing and power hitting. But if you want Dhoni as the keeper, then that's that.

Symonds vs Bevan is an interesting one. If take Bevan any day of the week and twice on Sundays if the match was played in the 20th century. But Symonds seems so much better suited to the modern game than Bevan with his strength and six hitting ability. I still think Bevan is the best choice at number 6 regardless (I'd bat Dhoni at 7 and pick Watson top open if I was including him with Bevan).

The interesting thing about ODI cricket is that tinkering one aspect of the line-up has dramatic effects on the whole side. The requirement to have 5 bowlers is a major consideration and one that affects more than one player.

Symonds was such a beast as a batsman. If t20 were invented a decade earlier people might have looked at Symonds the way people look at Gayle in the format. He seemed so well suited to it. He probably has the widest home/ away+neutral average discrepancy I've ever seen.

 

[Migara]

Symonds was such a beast as a batsman. If t20 were invented a decade earlier people might have looked at Symonds the way people look at Gayle in the format. He seemed so well suited to it. He probably has the widest home/ away+neutral average discrepancy I've ever seen.

Nah, Jayasuriya and Gilchrist would have been the men. Equally destructive, equally fit, but better players who can play longer innings, especially T20 considered. These two will bat at pace of Symonds and may even carry the bat as well.

 

[h_hurricane]

I am waiting to see how "Tendulkat / Jayasuriya bowling on spin friendly conditions" thingy used to describe similarities between stats of Ganguly and Symonds.

I do agree Ganguly vs Symonds is kind of apples vs oranges. Ganguly was mediocre + probably under-rated as a bowler though. Symonds by all accounts was mediocre + over-rated based on the evidence in this thread. Nobody in their fair minds would discuss about Ganguly as a bowler in even 5th ATG ODI XI. Here many people are arguing that Symonds adds value as a bowler in 1st ATG ODI team

 

[ankitj]

Here are Dhoni's series wise averages in Australia:

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

Don't think there was a hole. Before the last series he averaged 40.xx. After that series he averaged 47.xx

 

[Daemon]

Nah, Jayasuriya and Gilchrist would have been the men. Equally destructive, equally fit, but better players who can play longer innings, especially T20 considered. These two will bat at pace of Symonds and may even carry the bat as well.

Disagree. As it stands Symonds already walks into an all time T20 XI imo. The format was made for him.

 

[harsh.ag]

Symonds vs Bevan is an interesting one. If take Bevan any day of the week and twice on Sundays if the match was played in the 20th century. But Symonds seems so much better suited to the modern game than Bevan with his strength and six hitting ability. I still think Bevan is the best choice at number 6 regardless (I'd bat Dhoni at 7 and pick Watson top open if I was including him with Bevan).

The interesting thing about ODI cricket is that tinkering one aspect of the line-up has dramatic effects on the whole side. The requirement to have 5 bowlers is a major consideration and one that affects more than one player.

Symonds was such a beast as a batsman. If t20 were invented a decade earlier people might have looked at Symonds the way people look at Gayle in the format. He seemed so well suited to it. He probably has the widest home/ away+neutral average discrepancy I've ever seen.

I think of Bevan as a #5. To shepherd a chase home is really the only thing he has in an ATG context. And he's competing with ABdV for that spot.