The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread (white ball edition)

[SillyCowCorner1]

Lots of variety in the bowling there.

 

[TheJediBrah]

That's a big call, especially considering Harris' finest hour was arguably during the '99 WC when he proved to be near-unplayable on those seaming English wickets. Both men were outstanding fielders though.

Excellent point. I'd want to get Harris in there somehow because for me he personifies 90s NZ cricket. Not particular skilled or talented, didn't look like much, but punched above his weight. He was a lot more effective than he had any right to be.

and his stats put him a level above Symonds-tier as a bowler

 

[jimmy101]

Excellent point. I'd want to get Harris in there somehow because for me he personifies 90s NZ cricket. Not particular skilled or talented, didn't look like much, but punched above his weight. He was a lot more effective than he had any right to be.

and his stats put him a level above Symonds-tier as a bowler

Ditto. Was a real fighter & I'd bend just about any rule to get him in the side too. One of my favourite players from the 90's.

 

[jimmy101]

I'd find it just about impossible to pick an Aussie side since they've had so many one-day greats over the years, so here are a couple of ATG sides based on regions.

New South Wales-Queensland

David Warner
Matthew Hayden
Steve Smith
Mark Waugh
Michael Bevan
Shane Watson
Brad Haddin+
Mitchell Johnson
Mitchell Starc
Brett Lee
Glenn McGrath

Unlucky: Michael Clarke, Greg Chappell, Steve Waugh, Allan Border, Andrew Symonds, Craig McDermott, Nathan Bracken, Peter Taylor, Pat Cummins

An overabundance of openers in this side, so a few players have been shifted around. I feel Warner/Hayden is the most destructive opening combo available, as much as I wanted to get Mark Waugh to open. A few people might not agree with Smith coming in at 3, but I feel it'd be silly not to pick him. Junior at 4, followed by Bevan & then Watson/Haddin to bring that lower-order firepower. The team's bowling stocks are heavily weighted in pace, with Johnson, Lee & Starc all able to go the tonk if needed. Bevan, Smith & Waugh are available for some part time spin, however, on a true turning wicket I'd opt for Peter Taylor. Would have been nice to pick MacGill, but he hardly played ODI cricket at all.

-

Rest of Australia

Adam Gilchrist+
Aaron Finch
Ricky Ponting
Dean Jones
Damien Martyn
Mike Hussey
Simon O'Donnell
Brad Hogg
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Damien Fleming

Unlucky: Geoff Marsh, David Boon, Darren Lehmann, Tom Moody, Glenn Maxwell, Ian Harvey, Paul Reiffel, Jason Gillespie

Slightly weaker batting here, but the bowling is a bit more multi-facted. Could have easily opted for either Boon or Marsh to open with Gilly, but feel that Finchy has done enough to get the nod here. Ponting, Hussey & Jones are auto-picks, whilst Martyn justifies his spot imo. Simon O'Donnell mightn't be the first person on people's minds for the all-rounder's spot, but I feel he was just as aggressive & inventive as batsman as Maxwell, whilst being a better bowler, plus I already have two spinner in Warne & Hogg. Lillee & Fleming will open the bowling, offering two different sets of challenges.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'd find it just about impossible to pick an Aussie side since they've had so many one-day greats over the years, so here are a couple of ATG sides based on regions.

New South Wales-Queensland

David Warner
Matthew Hayden
Steve Smith
Mark Waugh
Michael Bevan
Shane Watson
Brad Haddin+
Mitchell Johnson
Mitchell Starc
Brett Lee
Glenn McGrath

Unlucky: Michael Clarke, Greg Chappell, Steve Waugh, Allan Border, Andrew Symonds, Craig McDermott, Nathan Bracken, Peter Taylor, Pat Cummins

Not trying to be funny here, but surely Symonds get in ahead of Watson if you're going to bat them at 6? Especially in a team with 4 specialist quicks anyway.

I'd almost pick both and get rid of Johnson, for the #batdeep.

 

[h_hurricane]

The point is (sigh) Symonds is being selected (perhaps) as a fifth bowler. You, and others, are saying "he's not good enough, he'd get spanked at this ATG level".

Yet over his career, his bowling ER compared with frontline bowlers who might be considered 2nd XI.

Very similar to comparing Glenn Maxwell and Mohammed Shami as bowlers in modern era.

As HB mentioned, Symonds played in an era when batsmen used to quietly nudge singles and twos and keep the scoreboard moving in the middle overs. Put him up against the current England batting lineup and see him getting hammered. Waqar and Lee would go for runs as well but would pick up a lot of wickets, denting the scoreboard.

If economy rate is the sole criteria, without looking at and when and where they bowled, I would go for Gavin Larsen every time over Symonds.

 

[jimmy101]

Not trying to be funny here, but surely Symonds get in ahead of Watson if you're going to bat them at 6? Especially in a team with 4 specialist quicks anyway.

I'd almost pick both and get rid of Johnson, for the #batdeep.

To be fair to him, Twatto is arguably the greatest ODI all-rounder Australia has produced, so it's hard not to pick him. The best bet might be to sub in Symonds for either Starc or Johnson (probs no need for two LF bowlers), that way you might be able to milk 10 overs out of Symonds/Bevan/Waugh/Smith. Though I like the Watson option as you still get an immensely talented power-hitter plus an infinitely better bowler.

 

[stephen]

Simple- drop either Hayden or Warner and pick Watto at the top.

 

[jimmy101]

Slow day at work here. A lot of my jobs have been called off due to the rain. So here's South Africa...

Quinton de Kock+
Graeme Smith*
Hashim Amla
Jacques Kallis
Faf du Plessis
AB de Villiers
Lance Klusener
Shaun Pollock
Dale Steyn
Imran Tahir
Allan Donald

Unlucky: Herschelle Gibbs, Gary Kirsten, Hansie Cronje, Jonty Rhodes, JP Duminy, Brian McMillan, Nicky Boje, Morne Morkel, Kasigo Rabada, Fanie de Villiers

Having to bat Amla out of position which isn't ideal, but I like the de Kock/Smith opening combo too much to pass over it. Kallis/Faf & ABdV form a very solid middle order before Zulu comes into to land the fatal blow. Would have loved to get big Brian McMillan, or even Jonty, but sadly there really isn't room for those guys. The bowling was a lot more straightforward. Pollock/Styen/Donald is clearly the best combination imo, with Kallis & Klusener in support, whilst Tahir is by all means the best option for spin.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I'd swap Faf with Gibbs

 

[vcs]

Controversial call, but I think Fanie De Villiers and Morne Morkel were better ODI bowlers than Steyn.

 

[jimmy101]

I'd swap Faf with Gibbs

I wouldn't be against that. Probably a better option.

Controversial call, but I think Fanie De Villiers and Morne Morkel were better ODI bowlers than Steyn.

Ah man, shame on me for forgetting Fast Fanie!! Added him to the unlucky list. And yes, reviving the all-conquering Donald/de Villiers opening combo would be amazing! Hard for me to drop Steyn though tbh.

 

[stephen]

Fanie was a gun.

 

[jimmy101]

Gotta admit Fanie vs Steyn in ODIs is quite the tough call.

 

[TheJediBrah]

To be fair to him, Twatto is arguably the greatest ODI all-rounder Australia has produced, so it's hard not to pick him. The best bet might be to sub in Symonds for either Starc or Johnson (probs no need for two LF bowlers), that way you might be able to milk 10 overs out of Symonds/Bevan/Waugh/Smith. Though I like the Watson option as you still get an immensely talented power-hitter plus an infinitely better bowler.

Yeah I have no doubts that Watson is a comfortably better ODI cricketer than Symonds (depending on how much you weight fielding ability) but he just didn't play much down the order and as a 5th seamer seems a bit superfluous.

Agree that I would definitely replace Johnson with Symonds though because Watson deserves to be in there somewhere. He was one of the greatest ODI cricketers ever, statistically.

 

[jimmy101]

Yeah I have no doubts that Watson is a comfortably better ODI cricketer than Symonds (depending on how much you weight fielding ability) but he just didn't play much down the order and as a 5th seamer seems a bit superfluous.

Agree that I would definitely replace Johnson with Symonds though because Watson deserves to be in there somewhere. He was one of the greatest ODI cricketers ever, statistically.

Yeah a straight swap between MJ & Symonds sounds good to me. I feel, along with the other part-timers, Symonds could be of use. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always found him to be at his best with the ball when bowling mediums. Dunno if it's possible to do a stats search, but I have a feeling he might have better stats with his mediums than his offies.

 

[h_hurricane]

I would go with the below team.

Gilchrist
Watson
Ponting
Jones
Hussey
Bevan
Symonds
Lee
Starc
Warne
Mcgrath

Presence of Watson makes me easier to bat Symonds at 7 Hard luck Mark Waugh, but a tough decision had to be made..

 

[Bolo.]

Yeah I have no doubts that Watson is a comfortably better ODI cricketer than Symonds (depending on how much you weight fielding ability) but he just didn't play much down the order and as a 5th seamer seems a bit superfluous.

Agree that I would definitely replace Johnson with Symonds though because Watson deserves to be in there somewhere. He was one of the greatest ODI cricketers ever, statistically.

Disagree that Twatto is comfortably better. Symonds is a better bat and fielder, and probably more importantly, fit more often. Twatto is a much better fit for an atg side, but I think they are close in quality.

Anyway, the two of them together works well in a team. Symonds only gets an over or two if Twatto is fit.

 

[Malcolm]

I think Greg Chappell is underrated in ODIs. IMO, he is the third best Aussie batsman of all time after Punter and Jones.

 

[harsh.ag]

I think Greg Chappell is underrated in ODIs. IMO, he is the third best Aussie batsman of all time after Punter and Jones.

Inb4 Bevan hurr durr