The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread (white ball edition)

[ankitj]

Bowling averages for fifth bowlers in ODIs are pretty inconsequential.

Where do such notions come from seriously!

 

[Red]

Where do such notions come from seriously!

It's not that complicated. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Averages for a fifth bowler are somewhat inconsequential because the average is how many runs you concede between each wicket. A fifth bowler might have plenty of days where he goes for 0/50 or 0/60 but he will have done the job his team needed bowling thru the middle overs. It's pretty simple to understand.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

These days the 1st bowler usually go for 0/80

 

[ankitj]

It's not that complicated. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Averages for a fifth bowler are somewhat inconsequential because the average is how many runs you concede between each wicket. A fifth bowler might have plenty of days where he goes for 0/50 or 0/60 but he will have done the job his team needed bowling thru the middle overs. It's pretty simple to understand.

It's dumb is all I would say. I can accept it if you say averages in general don't matter to the same extent as in tests because economy rates are critical too. But that'd be true for all bowlers. 5th bowler plus 6th, 7th etc. still bowl 10 overs combined and exactly the same sort of things that matter for top 4 bowlers matter for them too.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Gawd...test cricket is the best cricket

 

[ankitj]

Also, whatever job you describe will be better done by a Flintoff than a Symonds. That's pretty simple too.

 

[Migara]

Saqlain or Warne often get picked over Murali. But the three quicks are often picked together. To be honest though there are cases for a number of other quicks. Hadlee, Lillee, Holding, Roberts, Starc, Donald, Pollock, and even Johnson have compelling cases.

Saqlain, yes, because they have very similar stats. However in ODIs. Murali is way ahead of Warne. He averages <35 against all teams under all conditions, where as Warne averages 50+ against India, who were not even a top side during 3/4 of his career. Cannot imagine he can contain a ATG 2nd XI.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Also, whatever job you describe will be better done by a Flintoff than a Symonds. That's pretty simple too.

If we're talking about bowling, then yeah, but that's not really relevant because no one who's picking Symonds over Flintoff is doing it for his bowling

Cannot imagine he can contain a ATG 2nd XI.

True. At his biggest he was probably not much bigger than 115-120kg. You could barely fit 2 other players in him.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I truly believe that a second eleven in this format/s of the game would thrash the **** out of the first eleven.

Ah suh this **** ah guh.

 

[Migara]

True. At his biggest he was probably not much bigger than 115-120kg. You could barely fit 2 other players in him.

Oh yeah, I can smell it.

 

[h_hurricane]

Averages for a fifth bowler are somewhat inconsequential because the average is how many runs you concede between each wicket. A fifth bowler might have plenty of days where he goes for 0/50 or 0/60 but he will have done the job his team needed bowling thru the middle overs. It's pretty simple to understand.

If economy rate is all that matters in ODIs (which isn't an unreasonable way of looking at it), I would go with the below bowling line up. Garner, Ambrose, Hadlee, Pollock, Murali.

As Ankit mentioned, this thought process should be applicable to all the bowlers and not just 5th bowler in isolation. If you can contain the opposition to 180 for 7, nothing like it.

 

[stephen]

Saqlain, yes, because they have very similar stats. However in ODIs. Murali is way ahead of Warne. He averages <35 against all teams under all conditions, where as Warne averages 50+ against India, who were not even a top side during 3/4 of his career. Cannot imagine he can contain a ATG 2nd XI.

Murali was not immune to getting spanked for world record terrible figures either. Those who value world cup finals performances or those who want stronger tails (given Garner and McGrath were both very ordinary with the bat) would favour Warne. Those who want the statistically best bowler might favour Saqlain.

If people simply picked the best players purely on statistics, nobody would pick Viv any more.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I wouldn't even pick Warne in my ATG Aus ODI XI, Brad Hogg was just as good in an easier time for batsman, and he was a gun fielder and much better lower-order bat as well

 

[h_hurricane]

If people simply picked the best players purely on statistics, nobody would pick Viv any more.

Viv is still statistically the best ODI player ever. His record is unreal for the era he played. It isn't particularly close to anyone else.

 

[stephen]

I wouldn't even pick Warne in my ATG Aus ODI XI, Brad Hogg was just as good in an easier time for batsman, and he was a gun fielder and much better lower-order bat as well

Loved Hoggy, but this is some obvious trolling.

 

[smash84]

If people simply picked the best players purely on statistics, nobody would pick Viv any more.

 

[stephen]

A first XI based on runs scored, batting average or strike rate, or even a combination of average and strike rate would see a bunch of modern players in the top 6. Tendulkar would probably not make it either.

Records | One-Day Internationals | Batting records | Highest career batting average | ESPNcricinfo.com
Records | One-Day Internationals | Batting records | Most runs in career | ESPNcricinfo.com
Records | One-Day Internationals | Batting records | Highest career strike rate | ESPNcricinfo.com

Of course, it would be stupid not to pick Viv, which was the point I was making.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Loved Hoggy, but this is some obvious trolling.

what part is trolling?

 

[bagapath]

Who's the ATG supersub?

1970 - 86
Ian Botham

1987 - 2003
Sanath Jayasuriya

2004-20
Shahid Afridi

 

[stephen]

what part is trolling?

Hoggy was a step down from Warne with the ball.