South Africa team selection

[MrPrez]

Do you honestly believe the Pretorius is a test class batting number 7?

No. I'm referring to him being a test-class player, not a test-class number 7.

There isn't really an obvious spot for him in an ideal SA team as, while he's a good-enough test bowler, we have better in the wings. And he's not good enough to be a proper 7. But if we're going to do this stupid 5 bowler thing, he has to play, else you're in a worse situation.

I also don't really see anything from his performances so far that would say that whatever logic the selectors used to select him to start, would change now.

Personally I wouldn't pick him as I'd have Mulder at 7, or alternatively an actual batsman - as both are better options for team balance. But if we have to have this bowler-heavy strategy, Pretorius is a key part of that.

 

[MrPrez]

I think where we are really in disagreement is the quality of his batting. None of us believe he's a genuine Test 7; however I believe he is a solid 8 whereas you guys think he's barely better than Rabada/Nortje.

I think we all agree that a better option than Pretorius would be Mulder or a specialist batsman (Peterson, Verreyne, van Tonder etc). I'm not contesting that. I'm saying that I'd rather have Pretorius than a replacement of, say, Ngidi, Sipamla, Dupavillon, etc.

 

[StephenZA]

I think Jason Smith would be a better choice than Pretorius on current form and on general future growth and ability. Pretorius does not add enough with the ball for him to be selected at 8 in a test batting lineup, and he does not add enough with a bat to come in at 7. So I don't see his purpose in the current SA team. I would rather have a game changing batsmen or bowler with future potential in the team, even if in the end they added no more or less than Pretorius.

His selection is the same reason as selecting Malan and Rassie, the immediate FC experience added. Having 3 spots occupied by players like that does not build a team, it is placing a band-aid on the current problems.

 

[Rasimione]

Yes of course Bavuma, obviously he is the next one in line, considering he is no longer in the squad and has been told to go back down to FC and make runs to get back.

The person you replied to has a serious problem with players of colour.

 

[Rasimione]

Do you honestly believe the Pretorius is a test class batting number 7?

No.

 

[Rasimione]

No. I'm referring to him being a test-class player, not a test-class number 7.

There isn't really an obvious spot for him in an ideal SA team as, while he's a good-enough test bowler, we have better in the wings. And he's not good enough to be a proper 7. But if we're going to do this stupid 5 bowler thing, he has to play, else you're in a worse situation.

I also don't really see anything from his performances so far that would say that whatever logic the selectors used to select him to start, would change now.

Personally I wouldn't pick him as I'd have Mulder at 7, or alternatively an actual batsman - as both are better options for team balance. But if we have to have this bowler-heavy strategy, Pretorius is a key part of that.

They are backing the wrong horse. Mulder is a batsmen who bowls and he's therefore better than Pretorius. As things stand Hulk is bits and pieces.

 

[StephenZA]

I wonder how brave the SA selectors will be for the 2nd of the 2 tests.

Not brave at all...

sacricketmag.com/proteas-squad-unchanged-for-second-half-of-england-test-series/

 

[StephenZA]

sacricketmag.com/enoch-nkwe-has-the-right-sort-of-ego/ Nice little article on Nkwe. But I think the most important paragraph is.

Some on social media have chosen to fight injustices, both real and imagined, from the outside. These people choose to lob criticisms as if they were boulders slung from trebuchets. Whatever your thoughts on this approach it requires at least some degree of bravery. There is no right way to fight a broken system and this system is broken. Anyone who denies this needs a rethink given the fact that Kagiso Rabada is the only fit black African to have played in this series against England. The fault does not lie with Faul, Smith, Boucher or Du Plessis. The fault lies with the stakeholders who have failed to develop talent in rural areas and townships away from the privileged islands that keep the game afloat.

 

[StephenZA]

An aside comment: Ashwell Prince is such an underrated cricketer. Had a hard time of it sometimes, but always contributed. One of those players that got lost in the team that contained Smith, Kallis, Amla, de Villers.

 

[StephenZA]

It is very frustrating to see Paterson being picked when you have guys like Dupavillion and Burger busy playing FC. Heck you have Smith scoring runs and taking wickets, and we are playing Paterson.

 

[SeamUp]

It is very frustrating to see Paterson being picked when you have guys like Dupavillion and Burger busy playing FC. Heck you have Smith scoring runs and taking wickets, and we are playing Paterson.

His selection could really hurts us here if he doesn't contribute with the ball. Saying the obvious but we really should have gone in with an extra batsmen.

Maharaj was 6 degrees of spin on day 1. Well more than at most grounds in SA.

 

[SeamUp]

Jon-Jon Smuts and Sisanda Magala aren't playing this round for the Warriors because they at a National fitness camp. That is a first. Both are overweight so it is a sign they could be in the limited overs squads.

 

[TT Boy]

Given the noise about Bavuma, I think everyone knows how the ODI and 20/20 squads will shape up.

 

[Prince EWS]

Given the noise about Bavuma, I think everyone knows how the ODI and 20/20 squads will shape up.

Faf even mentioned him supposedly improving his white ball game the first time he was asked about his Test dropping.

 

[SeamUp]

4th test

Bavuma will come in over Second & Petersen.

Just depends if they go without the spinner can you go Philander, Nortje, Paterson, Pretorius

No Ngidi. B.Hendricks was next in line and they seem to have had Burger around the group in Cape Town.

 

[StephenZA]

I wonder when SA selectors will learn to try and give the youngsters the time to develop into world class players. We need to start picking the most talented players and give them a chance to get their teeth into Test match cricket. There is no future in consistently picking guys a bit more experienced but don't really have the match changing ability.

 

[SeamUp]

I wonder when SA selectors will learn to try and give the youngsters the time to develop into world class players. We need to start picking the most talented players and give them a chance to get their teeth into Test match cricket. There is no future in consistently picking guys a bit more experienced but don't really have the match changing ability.

It's almost like selection has got lazy. You back the guy with the stats and they fail it isn't your fault as a selector. What happened to identifying talent and ceiling ? No one around to do it anymore ? People worried about bias ?

 

[SeamUp]

Given the noise about Bavuma, I think everyone knows how the ODI and 20/20 squads will shape up.

Yup. This is happening.

Limited overs possibilities moving forward. T20 & 50-over with T20 first priority. Age this year in brackets. Add 3 years for 2023 in India for 50-over WC.

Players who weren't signed for MSL 2.0 in bold.

Cobras
J.Malan (24), Bedingham (26), Verreynne (23), Smith (26), Linde (29), Paterson (31), Burger (25)

Warriors
Breetzke (22), Smuts (32), Qeshile (21), Marais (27), Nortje (27), Sipamla (22), Magala (29)

Dolphins
Ackerman (24), Phehlukwayo (24), Maharaj (30), Subrayen (27). Dupavillon (26), E.Bosch (22)

Knights
van Tonder (22), van Biljon (34), Makwetu (21), Jansen (20)

Lions
Rickelton (24), R.Hendricks (31), Bavuma (30), van der Dussen (31), Mulder (22), Lubbe (28), Pretorius (31), Fortuin (26), Rabada (25), B.Hendricks (30)

Titans
de Zorzi (23), de Kock (28), du Plessis (36), Markram (26), Klaasen (29), Ngidi (24), Dala (31), Shamsi (30)

T20 Travelers
de Villiers (36) , Miller (31), Morris (33), Steyn (37)

SA U19
Bird (19), Parsons (19) , Coetzee (20)


As ever we will need multiple spin options. Batsman who can bowl spin ? Markram, Lubbe, Smuts (age), Ackerman and Bird/Parsons fall in that category.

Left Elgar, P.Malan, de Bruyn, Roelofsen, Richards, Hamza, Moore, Second, Petersen, Muthusamy, Stuurman as pure 4-day cricketers.

 

[StephenZA]

It's almost like selection has got lazy. You back the guy with the stats and they fail it isn't your fault as a selector. What happened to identifying talent and ceiling ? No one around to do it anymore ? People worried about bias ?

I think the bias, combined with the quota has caused issues. I think identifying talent is not difficult, many of youngsters have been known about for years. Getting the most out of that talent is another issue, regards coaches etc. But arguing why you are picking one person over another from intangibles when quota exists makes life difficult for the selectors. So now you back the in-form FC player, combined with some discussion regards quota, and nobody can say you are biased.

Even the players of colour at franchise level being selected quite often aren't youngsters with potential but picking older club/3-day provincial players that are probably at the top of their games but will never add long term to the system. So you end up with a structure where instant results are required and few squads building a team on a long term basis. No succession. It is also why money becomes an issue, the bigger unions just buy other players rather than building, so any of the smaller provinces immediately get stripped even if they are trying to build.

Many of the problems in the SA team is because nobody actually identified replacements for the greats retiring, decided to pick the next apparent cab of the rank regardless. I am just hoping that they will use the LO squad and SA 'A' to give the youngsters a real go. Sink or swim and use that to take players into the Test team.

 

[SeamUp]

I think the bias, combined with the quota has caused issues. I think identifying talent is not difficult, many of youngsters have been known about for years. Getting the most out of that talent is another issue, regards coaches etc. But arguing why you are picking one person over another from intangibles when quota exists makes life difficult for the selectors. So now you back the in-form FC player, combined with some discussion regards quota, and nobody can say you are biased.

Even the players of colour at franchise level being selected quite often aren't youngsters with potential but picking older club/3-day provincial players that are probably at the top of their games but will never add long term to the system. So you end up with a structure where instant results are required and few squads building a team on a long term basis. No succession. It is also why money becomes an issue, the bigger unions just buy other players rather than building, so any of the smaller provinces immediately get stripped even if they are trying to build.

Many of the problems in the SA team is because nobody actually identified replacements for the greats retiring, decided to pick the next apparent cab of the rank regardless. I am just hoping that they will use the LO squad and SA 'A' to give the youngsters a real go. Sink or swim and use that to take players into the Test team.

100% agree with all this. The complexities in our selection again are hurting us.

Now we have stick with players and give extended opportunity. The problem is we hardly playing test cricket this year so this could drag out massively.

As you and I keep saying, the young guys must just keep plugging away. Hopefully the get good challenges with the A side and stuff.