*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[wellAlbidarned]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Yeah we'd all love to have 145kph bowlers steaming in for every domestic team but reality is going to impede that and it was all our regular experienced squad members who failed.

 

[Immenso]

We were offered warm up games by Cricket Australia, but turned them down ... a decision which seems to be adamantly being stuck to by Stead and that high performance guy. “Who knows what difference it would have made” ... pretty astounding.

You say the domestic NZ cricket is such a poor standard, but the players that came in from it all did well? I think our domestic game is pretty solid, but it’s very rare any of those players are given a chance at a higher level. The reduction in first class matches is going to come back to bite us in future seasons, though.

I'm as a big a 'warm ups are essential ' guy as you can get. But I understand the first test and pre-first commercial timings on this one.

NZ had a November test series v England to host, weird timing, but a golden goose never to be turned down.

CA wanted to schedule the first D/N test to be before the BBL, hence we had no warm up and then the weird 11 day gap to second test

I accept that, and think it was worthwhile to play the first test as sacrificial lambs.

Where as our attitude to warmups for India in e g. 2018 in September with no other commitments was just disgraceful and a dereliction of duty.

What I don't accept, is what they had planned for the 11 day gap. A 2 day 15-a-side game v Vic 3rd 11 (as Vic has 2 BBL Franchises). Which got reduced to 1 day due to heat.

That game needed to be FC status, v a Prime Ministers XI, and the entire test batting lineup needed to play and NZ needed to plan and fly in an entire second string bowling unit.

If the PM XI was a bit weak then on bright side batsmen get time in middle

That lack of care and attention to detail on that gap just pissed me off so much. At that point my best hope shifted to at best honourable loss by 3rd test rather than by second test.

They can **** off. I'd cancelled my sky subscription before the 3rd test, and dont want to see their faces for about a year. Apart from loveable Wags ...

Realised I care more than a plethora of people actually making the decisions, and that's demoralising.

 

[NZTailender]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Yeah we'd all love to have 145kph bowlers steaming in for every domestic team but reality is going to impede that and it was all our regular experienced squad members who failed.

More experience outside NZ, I guess. More A tours. Hell, even B tours somehow. Grade cricket in Australia early doors. You're right, we can't magically have 145 bowlers in Plunket Shield from nowhere. Prolonged PS would be best - you can get a better look at who might be the real deal and who isn't. If they're not going to have more PS rounds, we need a few North vs South fixtures with FC status to tighten the player pool and quality a bit. Auckland, ND and Wellington vs CD, Cants and Otago.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

I'm as a big a 'warm ups are essential ' guy as you can get. But I understand the first test and pre-first commercial timings on this one.

NZ had a November test series v England to host, weird timing, but a golden goose never to be turned down.

CA wanted to schedule the first D/N test to be before the BBL, hence we had no warm up and then the weird 11 day gap to second test

I accept that, and think it was worthwhile to play the first test as sacrificial lambs.

Where as our attitude to warmups for India in e g. 2018 in September with no other commitments was just disgraceful and a dereliction of duty.

What I don't accept, is what they had planned for the 11 day gap. A 2 day 15-a-side game v Vic 3rd 11 (as Vic has 2 BBL Franchises). Which got reduced to 1 day due to heat.

That game needed to be FC status, v a Prime Ministers XI, and the entire test batting lineup needed to play and NZ needed to plan and fly in an entire second string bowling unit.

If the PM XI was a bit weak then on bright side batsmen get time in middle

That lack of care and attention to detail on that gap just pissed me off so much. At that point my best hope shifted to at best honourable loss by 3rd test rather than by second test.

They can **** off. I'd cancelled my sky subscription before the 3rd test, and dont want to see their faces for about a year. Apart from loveable Wags ...

Realised I care more than a plethora of people actually making the decisions, and that's demoralising.

It did come down to scheduling in the end, that England series was so weirdly timed. Could we have played the tests before the T20s? A three day pre-Perth warm-up was still offered by Cricket Australia, and as you say for the warm-up that did happen, I think a lot could have been gained from it even playing our full-strength batting line up, and Ferguson with some second string bowlers, if our front-liners were too fatigued after the England tests. I guess putting up a strong showing in Australia just wasn't given much importance by the higher ups at NZC with that schedule ... which is frankly gutting for those 20,000 of us that paid thousands to go over and support them and were witness to an absolute shambles of a tour.

The usual head in the sand, hope it all goes away response from NZC is just what I expect from David White at this stage.

 

[Bahnz]

Another culprit is NZ pitches and domestic comp. 6 games a season split by LO stuff. I know what the money maker is but they play such mid-level quality cricket, it makes mediocre players look great and good players look amazing. i'm surprised Blundell did as well as he did, tbh, ditto Phillips. Thought they'd get eaten alive. But beyond them, we;ve got basically Will Young, Seifert (maybe) and Devon Conway in, what, a years time? .

The plunket shield is 8 games not 6 (at least for now) with 5 rounds scheduled for Feb/March.

 

[Flem274*]

Using mcewan as an example is straw manning a bit given a) he's one of the few surving medium pacers left and b) he's quite good, probably cdg level. Would take wickets in any domestic comp.

If you need speed the shield has never had more of it. Lockie has played several seasons, kuggs and bennett play every game, sears has begun, milne sometimes plays and the cd attack is sharp in general. Barnes and hazeldine look quite quick too.

The shield players weren't the problem, kane, ross, latham, nicholls and watling were and they have about 300 test matches collectively.

 

[NZTailender]

Yeah look, not going to say that isn't true, but if we're actually going to get any better than we are now - because apparently this might be our best ever side - we're going to have to bridge the gap between the PS and Test level better than we currently have, either by giving the Test regulars enough of a chance to actually play FC cricket, because the international home window sees a lot of them playing white ball cricket, and not enough of those guys playing county cricket.

 

[NZTailender]

Mark Reason has stuck the boot in and still managed to find a significant amount of space to bag McCullum. Incredible.

One commenter reckons Kane's full of himself, and that he told Stead "this is my team!" Boggles the mind.

 

[Flem274*]

I dont want kiwi bowlers anywhere near county cricket tbh. Its far too easy to look like a superstar. Ryder, franklin, jeets and now henry have been devastating in that competition. Henry took 75 @ 15 the other year.

You bag mcewan and the now retired ellis well they would love a duke ball. We should never ever use it at fc level.

 

[_Ed_]

I dont want kiwi bowlers anywhere near county cricket tbh. Its far too easy to look like a superstar. Ryder, franklin, jeets and now henry have been devastating in that competition. Henry took 75 @ 15 the other year.

Don't forget Andre Adams.

 

[Meridio]

Mark Reason has stuck the boot in and still managed to find a significant amount of space to bag McCullum. Incredible.

One commenter reckons Kane's full of himself, and that he told Stead "this is my team!" Boggles the mind.

Stuff comments on cricket articles make me want to gouge my own eyes out tbh.

Actually Stuff comments on any articles make me want to do that.

 

[Jezroy]

I dont want kiwi bowlers anywhere near county cricket tbh. Its far too easy to look like a superstar. Ryder, franklin, jeets and now henry have been devastating in that competition. Henry took 75 @ 15 the other year.

You bag mcewan and the now retired ellis well they would love a duke ball. We should never ever use it at fc level.

I don’t mind any NZers playing County Cricket, but the powers that be have to realise that taking wickets at a 15 average in Div 2 is not as great as it sounds.

I think it’s especially beneficial to the batsmen and those bowlers that need to bowl a shite load.

But yeah, they may as well play club stuff in the Northern Territory

 

[NZTailender]

I dont want kiwi bowlers anywhere near county cricket tbh. Its far too easy to look like a superstar. Ryder, franklin, jeets and now henry have been devastating in that competition. Henry took 75 @ 15 the other year.

You bag mcewan and the now retired ellis well they would love a duke ball. We should never ever use it at fc level.

...which is why I'd prefer more A tours

 

[Athlai]

I'd prefer more plunket shield and less List A nonsense. A combined AU-NZ List A derby for a month should be how it's done, same with the T20 stuff.

 

[Howsie]

Fundamentally my biggest concern with the Stead-Larsen combo (and tbf this does go back to before Stead took over as head coach) is that they give players way to long a rope, and with that happening we just aren’t seeing the younger players coming through.

Take the Tom Latham injury, you’d think perfect, this is a chance to play one of or both Phillips and Seifert. Two dynamic young wicket keepers, not in Stead’s eyes though, he’s adamant Latham will be back in time for the ODI series against India. Latham’s numbers in one day cricket the last couple of years are horrible, and yet seemingly his place isn’t even close to being questioned.

We need to start playing the likes of Will Young, Tim Seifert and Glenn Phillips, give them a chance to show something. If we don’t play them they’ll never develop properly either playing away in domestic cricket.

Long story short, if I see the names Munro, Southee, Nicholls and Latham named in the next one day squad I’ll flip.

 

[NZTailender]

Agreed. Clearly everything is about the T20 WC, and we've just got past a ODI WC, makes sense to start blooding younger/newer players now. I mean, everything seems geared around WCs in ODIs now anyway, trying tog et a team settled 12 months out.

tbf, I wouldn't mind if they rested anyone who played the Test series, maybe with the exception of Rossco

 

[The Hutt Rec]

It’s pretty clear the majority of them that played in the World Cup are mentally shot and should be rested from the upcoming ODIs and T20s, tbf.

 

[TheBrand]

I would like to see this as our ODI XI against India:

Guptill
Phillips
KW (c)
Ross
Nicholls
Neesham
CdG
Santner
Henry
Ferguson
Boult

 

[Athlai]

Rest Boult / Henry. Lets see some other faces in there for once. Bennett has been doing everything you possibly can to get a callup at the domestic level. Give him a run.

 

[TheBrand]

Rest Boult / Henry. Lets see some other faces in there for once. Bennett has been doing everything you possibly can to get a callup at the domestic level. Give him a run.

Yeah on 2nd thought, I don't mind resting either of them. But dunno about Bennett though, 32 years old so surely not going to be in the frame for the next WC.