*Official* England in South Africa 2019/20

[Daemon]

I don’t think there’s much wrong with the CC that wasn’t already present for ages tbh. Limited overs cricket has, over time, required players to adopt a set of skills that are increasingly different from what’s required in Tests.

There’s only so much time you have to train, and most players can’t do it for all formats effectively, or make that switch on demand. There’s got to be give and take unless you’re a freak like the fab four.

This isn’t unique to England. The fact that Labuschagne’s turned into a God and the rest of the Australian side are filling their boots as usual at home against some poo bowling makes it easy to forget how garbage their batting was just a year ago, with plenty of inadequate replacements coming through.

SA themselves have a batting lineup that would probably be rolled for 200 if they were to face Philander.

It might be that fast bowlers are dominating this period of cricket we’re in because they don’t have to adapt to the extent batsmen and spinners do.

 

[Gnske]

Marnus had the time to change over at Glamorgan ffs

 

[honestbharani]

With Marnus, it was always obvious to me he had an X factor about him. The ease with which he is able to judge the length and line of the ball meant he just had to straighten out some deficiencies in his set up and strokeplay, which is what you hope coaches at the next level will do. Even Pujara had to make a technical adjustment to be able to score plenty in Australia, which was initiated by Ravi Shastri. From this English side, I think 1 guy in the similar level is Butler. He honestly should be able to bat a lot better than he does currently and just needs some technical changes and maybe more time playing the longer format will help. But it looks more and more like that ship has sailed. Another one I have high hopes for is Sam Curran. If England can work on them somehow, I feel they will have a trio of outstanding talents in Pope, Stokes and Curran who can help them rebuild.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Shame for SA that Philander is gonna retire at the end of the series as the balance of their bowling lineup is shaping up really nicely. Out and out pace in Nortje, Swing and accuracy in Philander, consistent cheap overs from Pretorious, Economical and threatening spin from Maharaj and Rabada's all-round excellent bowling. Especially remarkable considering the impact of Kolpak's.

As for England, the less said the better. Pope an obvious positive. I'm hoping that he might be raised to 5 in the lineup. Stokes is the better batsman right now, but I think its much better for the balance of the team to have him at 6. This is a crunch series for Butler I think. Foakes might come back in for Sri Lanka if he doesn't get significant runs in the next run of games, which tbh might not be too bad a thing and can allow him to concentrate on his one-day game

I don't think England are out of this game yet, but they are trying their hardest to be. There was decent enough swing from Pretorious and Philander to encourage Anderson, Broad and Curran, and Bess might get a bit of purchase from the pitch. Think it could still quite easily go away from them in the first two sessions tomorrow though. It weren't like many of the batsmen were got out by quality deliveries (Butler got a particularly good one I feel). The saving grace is that SA aren't a great batting team either

I think Maharaj's biggest problem is that no matter what he does, he'll always be a vowel short of greatness.

 

[Dendarii]

Shame for SA that Philander is gonna retire at the end of the series as the balance of their bowling lineup is shaping up really nicely. Out and out pace in Nortje, Swing and accuracy in Philander, consistent cheap overs from Pretorious, Economical and threatening spin from Maharaj and Rabada's all-round excellent bowling. Especially remarkable considering the impact of Kolpak's.

I wonder if part of the reason they were so keen to bring Pretorius in was to still have some of the contrast that they're going to lose with Philander's departure given that Ngidi would be the player most likely to come in. Obviously, Pretorius is nowhere near the bowler that Philander is, but when there are times that conditions aren't favouring the other quicks, having him offering something different might be to South Africa's benefit.

 

[Shady Slim]

a look at the australian vs south african fast bowling stocks of the decade is frickin crazy when you are talking depth

johnson
cummins
harris
starc
pattinson
hazlewood
siddle
watson
hilfenhaus
bollinger
mmarsh
richardson

against

steyn
philander
morkel
rabada
kallis
abbott
pretorius
nortje
viljoen

i’m sure i’m forgetting heaps of saffers and probably some aussies too, but like, even out of the nuffies that i listed, bangladesh’d love to trot out hilfenhaus with bollinger and viljoen ffs

 

[Daemon]

ngidi and the great rory kleinveldt

 

[StephenZA]

I wonder if part of the reason they were so keen to bring Pretorius in was to still have some of the contrast that they're going to lose with Philander's departure given that Ngidi would be the player most likely to come in. Obviously, Pretorius is nowhere near the bowler that Philander is, but when there are times that conditions aren't favouring the other quicks, having him offering something different might be to South Africa's benefit.

This is my thinking as well... but my concern is what does this do to further delay Mulders introduction.

Bearing in mind that Pretorius has been offered a SA contract. I also wonder if they have plans for him for the LO team?

 

[StephenZA]

ngidi and the great rory kleinveldt

If we start going down that root, might as well include Chris Morris, Wayne Parnell. Also Marchant de Lange. Truth is SA have had a number of decent fast bowlers sitting at FC level for a few years, but difficult to get into team when you are competing against Steyn, Philander and Morkel.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Early De Lange had quite possibly the most phenomenal action I have ever seen, real human catapult stuff

Said it before I know, but it was quite something

 

[Daemon]

If we start going down that root, might as well include Chris Morris, Wayne Parnell. Also Marchant de Lange. Truth is SA have had a number of decent fast bowlers sitting at FC level for a few years, but difficult to get into team when you are competing against Steyn, Philander and Morkel.

I mean there’s MMarsh in the Australian list so it’s all fair game I think.

 

[Shady Slim]

I mean there’s MMarsh in the Australian list so it’s all fair game I think.

yeah everyone is fair game, purpose of the exercise just to show the extent of the depth both the counties have... a lot of those depth guys who were just mediocre for australia or south africa would’ve been getting regular starts for other test sides

 

[Dendarii]

This is my thinking as well... but my concern is what does this do to further delay Mulders introduction.

Possibly, although I think the contrast argument can be applied to Mulder as well, even if not to the same extent. I think the new regime wants to have an allrounder in the side, so they've gone with one from the outset, which means that they need to have options, and right now the two best ones are Mulder and Pretorius, and with Mulder not being available then it had to be Pretorius. We don't really have any way of knowing whether Pretorius is just there because Mulder is injured or whether he would be the preferred one of the two if both were fit, but we could see the two of them fighting for that allrounder spot.

Bearing in mind that Pretorius has been offered a SA contract. I also wonder if they have plans for him for the LO team?

He's not a stranger to the side, even if he hasn't nailed down a regular spot, but I think he'll definitely be involved.

 

[Dendarii]

If we start going down that root, might as well include Chris Morris, Wayne Parnell. Also Marchant de Lange.

Olivier the other other name missing from the list.

Truth is SA have had a number of decent fast bowlers sitting at FC level for a few years, but difficult to get into team when you are competing against Steyn, Philander and Morkel.

Agreed. As much as people like to harp on about quotas and the 2015 World Cup semi-final, ultimately the reason that Abbott went Kolpak was that he couldn't get into the team ahead of any of those three, and then Rabada a little bit later on.

 

[Dendarii]

Early De Lange had quite possibly the most phenomenal action I have ever seen, real human catapult stuff

Said it before I know, but it was quite something

If I remember correctly, he was a very good javelin thrower when he was younger, so his action probably incorporated elements of that.

 

[mackembhoy]

I pine for the days where I complained about Bell only scoring pretty 100s, or KP only scoring 158.

Ian Bell only scoring tons when someone else did too.

 

[Rasimione]

a look at the australian vs south african fast bowling stocks of the decade is frickin crazy when you are talking depth

johnson
cummins
harris
starc
pattinson
hazlewood
siddle
watson
hilfenhaus
bollinger
mmarsh
richardson

against

steyn
philander
morkel
rabada
kallis
abbott
pretorius
nortje
viljoen

i’m sure i’m forgetting heaps of saffers and probably some aussies too, but like, even out of the nuffies that i listed, bangladesh’d love to trot out hilfenhaus with bollinger and viljoen ffs

Friedel De Wet should have been there as well but injuries ****ed him up. ?

 

[SeamUp]

Thinking back to previous brother batsmen. Chappell's, Kirsten's, Waugh's, Marsh's etc

One the grafter and grinder and the other the stylist or one the old school bat time v domineering and hard hitting. Same for Pieter and Janneman Malan. So different.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Amazing to think Neil Wagner was struggling to play 1st class over there and yet has been one of the top seamers of the decade

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Amazing to think Neil Wagner was struggling to play 1st class over there and yet has been one of the top seamers of the decade

Oops new decade now