They need to win games. You pick them for as long as you can.
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*Official* England in South Africa 2019/20
- Thread starter StephenZA
- Start date
ImpatientLime
International Regular
that high?
flibbertyjibber
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Variation and one of the few this winter who has actually performed with credibility.
Woodster
International Captain
Very good from Pope, certainly shown enough in his brief Test career to date to persevere with him for some time in that number six spot. Shame there isn’t a consistent performing five spots above him, chances are he’ll be shunted up the order before it’s ideal.
StephenZA
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah saw that. Poor discipline. Not liking Rabada Faf interaction in general at the moment.
hazsa19
International Regular
I pine for the days where I complained about Bell only scoring pretty 100s, or KP only scoring 158.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Stay classy H.England in town standing ovation for a 50
Shame for SA that Philander is gonna retire at the end of the series as the balance of their bowling lineup is shaping up really nicely. Out and out pace in Nortje, Swing and accuracy in Philander, consistent cheap overs from Pretorious, Economical and threatening spin from Maharaj and Rabada's all-round excellent bowling. Especially remarkable considering the impact of Kolpak's.
As for England, the less said the better. Pope an obvious positive. I'm hoping that he might be raised to 5 in the lineup. Stokes is the better batsman right now, but I think its much better for the balance of the team to have him at 6. This is a crunch series for Butler I think. Foakes might come back in for Sri Lanka if he doesn't get significant runs in the next run of games, which tbh might not be too bad a thing and can allow him to concentrate on his one-day game
I don't think England are out of this game yet, but they are trying their hardest to be. There was decent enough swing from Pretorious and Philander to encourage Anderson, Broad and Curran, and Bess might get a bit of purchase from the pitch. Think it could still quite easily go away from them in the first two sessions tomorrow though. It weren't like many of the batsmen were got out by quality deliveries (Butler got a particularly good one I feel). The saving grace is that SA aren't a great batting team either
As for England, the less said the better. Pope an obvious positive. I'm hoping that he might be raised to 5 in the lineup. Stokes is the better batsman right now, but I think its much better for the balance of the team to have him at 6. This is a crunch series for Butler I think. Foakes might come back in for Sri Lanka if he doesn't get significant runs in the next run of games, which tbh might not be too bad a thing and can allow him to concentrate on his one-day game
I don't think England are out of this game yet, but they are trying their hardest to be. There was decent enough swing from Pretorious and Philander to encourage Anderson, Broad and Curran, and Bess might get a bit of purchase from the pitch. Think it could still quite easily go away from them in the first two sessions tomorrow though. It weren't like many of the batsmen were got out by quality deliveries (Butler got a particularly good one I feel). The saving grace is that SA aren't a great batting team either
ImpatientLime
International Regular
for all the doom and gloom they have one in pope
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
It felt like a low point today. Hopefully we've reached a nadir.
Woeful and exposing all the issues that are bad at the moment. The failings of county cricket to produce test cricketers, and the lions to bridge the gap was on full show today imo. Two issues that really stood out to me were...
1) The bowling unit selected. 4 medium pacers and an average right arm off spinner. There's been plenty of talk in recent times in picking bowling units to win away from home and yet again we are left once again with a plodding attack. The only fast man we've got is Archer who is an import. Anderson and Broad are still the only reliable bowlers. Why the injuries to Wood, J Overton, Stone, Fisher? Why have talents like Helm and Garton gone no-where? Why the complete lack of good spinners in the county game?
Compare that to SA who continue to lose talent to kolpak and other issues, and yet they have Nortje and Rabada bowling quick, and Maharaj with his controlled spin.
2) Denly has an excellent fc record against spin in recent times and has looked pretty comfortable against it until today in test cricket. And yet SA had worked out his game and blocked off his areas and as a result he was strokeless. The lack of good spinners and conditions in the county game have left this generation severely unskilled against good spin. And the lack of preparation time for county cricket means players with holes in their techniques can go careers without them being properly examined. Look at Sibley and Duckett in recent times. Sibley has had two of the worst dismissals you can see against spin, and looks like he's never faced spin before. Duckett had got into the test side with no defensive skills against spin.
Woeful and exposing all the issues that are bad at the moment. The failings of county cricket to produce test cricketers, and the lions to bridge the gap was on full show today imo. Two issues that really stood out to me were...
1) The bowling unit selected. 4 medium pacers and an average right arm off spinner. There's been plenty of talk in recent times in picking bowling units to win away from home and yet again we are left once again with a plodding attack. The only fast man we've got is Archer who is an import. Anderson and Broad are still the only reliable bowlers. Why the injuries to Wood, J Overton, Stone, Fisher? Why have talents like Helm and Garton gone no-where? Why the complete lack of good spinners in the county game?
Compare that to SA who continue to lose talent to kolpak and other issues, and yet they have Nortje and Rabada bowling quick, and Maharaj with his controlled spin.
2) Denly has an excellent fc record against spin in recent times and has looked pretty comfortable against it until today in test cricket. And yet SA had worked out his game and blocked off his areas and as a result he was strokeless. The lack of good spinners and conditions in the county game have left this generation severely unskilled against good spin. And the lack of preparation time for county cricket means players with holes in their techniques can go careers without them being properly examined. Look at Sibley and Duckett in recent times. Sibley has had two of the worst dismissals you can see against spin, and looks like he's never faced spin before. Duckett had got into the test side with no defensive skills against spin.
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theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
Yes I saw your post the other day and I wasn’t sure I was in full agreement that it was a bad coaching issue.
Maybe a lack of coaching?
Generally during the county season there isn’t a lot of technical coaching because there simply isn’t the time and the schedules are too tight. That’s a failing of the schedule.
Also players like Bairstow and Buttler will have spent little to no time with their counties over the last few years and played very little fc cricket outside England games. Where to find the time to improve when you play all 3 formats and the IPL?
Even at international level there seems to be a reluctance by the player and/or coach to tinker with techniques whilst series are ongoing.
There was certainly a switch in focus in the English game from Test/FC to the shorter formats in 2015, and with t20/t10 leagues now in abundance there certainly isn’t the desperation in some players to play test cricket.
The conditions and structure of county cricket certainly aren’t helping. Wickets that are too in favour of the bowler push batsman into playing attack cricket and away from occupying the crease for long periods of the game. Labuschagne is an exception but there really haven’t been many dominant overseas bats in English conditions in recent times. The schedule being as hectic as it is allows little time for technical work during the season, and with fc cricket pushed to the edges of the season conditions rarely replicate what players face at test level. Too many teams means the talent is spread too thin especially if players are away with IPL and England.
I don't think it's just an England issue though. What of the likes of Maxwell, Finch, Lynn, Guptill, Elvin Lewis, Pooran. Guys like Lynn and Pooran aren't even playing FC cricket anymore because they don't have to.
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Woodster
International Captain
You certainly answer point 1 in your next post. The county schedule simply doesn’t lend itself to bowlers bowling quickly! Bowling 90mph+ puts huge amounts of strain on the body, and we simply play far too much cricket in which to produce players for this skill. Those that can are not in the CC for long before realising that actually they can get paid significantly more by just bowling four overs a game in any T20 competition in the world.
We have to improve the development and the way we look after the genuine quick bowlers and an understanding from the county coaches and captains about how to use them and how often. We saw with Archer in the summer, it’s so easy to continually throw him the ball and bowl him for longer and longer spells, the net result being he’ll drop his pace and lose that X-factor with regards his pace unless he’s managed properly.