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South Africa team selection

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Problem is the education of young cricketers seems slower than it was then for whatever reasons. Quality of coaches in schoolboy cricket, club cricket, provincial and franchise cricket. Are they being challenged and bouncing ideas in a constructive way that Duncan Fletcher did for Gary Kirsten/Kallis or Woolmer did for that whole batting line up or Procter did for young Cronje or Ford did for a young Rhodes. Lets not even get into the hardened domestic cricketers SA had for young players to play with and then you add the likes of Desmond Haynes, Alvin Kallicaharan, Eldine Baptiste, Franklyn Stephenson, Sylvester Clarke, Malcolm Marshall and the likes.
Which I don't disagree with... I do think domestic and school level coaching etc is very poor at the moment. (It was interesting to hear Smith mention these issues yesterday in the lunch time talk). But all those players I mentioned did not hit the international game and suddenly become the best in the world, they struggled. de Villers was opening and avg 23 in his first 25 games. Amla went through his issues. Steyn went through his. But they learnt largely at the international stage (and some dropping down to franchise under good mentors).

Looking at current team, you watch Hamza and you see that he belongs. Time on ball played some good little innings. But also looks inexperienced and played some silly shots, you can see he needs guidance and to get that big one under his belt. Don't doubt his selection. Markram is quality, can see it but something not right and needs time to get himself sorted. I watch van der Dussen and I don't think that. I think he is an inform good player that may make a stop gap contribution. But it frustrates me when we are rebuilding and I see some of the quality young batsmen sitting at franchise, and because of the domestic issues they are stagnating; they need to be picked and helped. And hopefully while SA does that they also sort out the domestic and lower level structures.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Which I don't disagree with... I do think domestic and school level coaching etc is very poor at the moment. (It was interesting to hear Smith mention these issues yesterday in the lunch time talk). But all those players I mentioned did not hit the international game and suddenly become the best in the world, they struggled. de Villers was opening and avg 23 in his first 25 games. Amla went through his issues. Steyn went through his. But they learnt largely at the international stage (and some dropping down to franchise under good mentors).

Looking at current team, you watch Hamza and you see that he belongs. Time on ball played some good little innings. But also looks inexperienced and played some silly shots, you can see he needs guidance and to get that big one under his belt. Don't doubt his selection. Markram is quality, can see it but something not right and needs time to get himself sorted. I watch van der Dussen and I don't think that. I think he is an inform good player that may make a stop gap contribution. But it frustrates me when we are rebuilding and I see some of the quality young batsmen sitting at franchise, and because of the domestic issues they are stagnating; they need to be picked and helped. And hopefully while SA does that they also sort out the domestic and lower level structures.
Fair enough. It's probably a balance somewhere in the middle. I still think young cricketers education is behind whether it is coaching or facilities produced to play on. You know I am a big fan of identifying talent and backing them but like you said ... Amla, de Villiers, Philander, Steyn, Morkel and the likes were sent back to domestic cricket to work on their faults. What now for Theunis de Bruyn ? What now for Aiden Markram ? What now for Temba Bavuma ?. Will they be tested enough to prepare them to come back in better shape than before ?

The system has failed our cricketers and this has not been helped by policies and our cricket is in a pretty sad state of affairs where our cricketers can't trust our system.
 

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
What now for Theunis de Bruyn ? What now for Aiden Markram ? What now for Temba Bavuma ?. Will they be tested enough to prepare them to come back in better shape than before ?
I don't think de Bruyn is likely to sort himself out. Bavuma has not grown enough for me to believe that he could become better. Markram's problem is in his head, some technical flaws, particularly that front pad, and pushing to hard at the ball. But I think that Markram needs time at the wicket to give himself confidence again, he looks tentative and uncertain. And that all started with his problems in ODI cricket.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Is there no cricket over the festive period next summer ? Sri Lanka only here 2021 supposedly.

Really hope a series can be arranged still ?
 

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
https://www.cricschedule.com/ftp/team/south-africa.html

So that is what I`ve found.

Jul - Aug 2020
South Africa tour of West Indies
Matches: 2 Test and 5 T20
Venue: West Indies


Sep - Oct 2020 Pakistan tour of South Africa 2020
Matches: 3 ODI and 3 T20
Venue: South Africa


Dec 2020 -Jan 2021 Sri Lanka tour of South Africa 2021
Matches: 2 Test
Venue: South Africa


Jan - Feb 2021 South Africa tour of Pakistan 2021
Matches: 2 Test and 3 T20
Venue: Pakistan/UAE


Feb - Mar 2021 Australia tour of South Africa 2021
Matches: 3 Test
Venue: South Africa
 

SeamUp

International Coach
https://www.cricschedule.com/ftp/team/south-africa.html

So that is what I`ve found.

Jul - Aug 2020
South Africa tour of West Indies
Matches: 2 Test and 5 T20
Venue: West Indies


Sep - Oct 2020 Pakistan tour of South Africa 2020
Matches: 3 ODI and 3 T20
Venue: South Africa


Dec 2020 -Jan 2021 Sri Lanka tour of South Africa 2021
Matches: 2 Test
Venue: South Africa


Jan - Feb 2021 South Africa tour of Pakistan 2021
Matches: 2 Test and 3 T20
Venue: Pakistan/UAE


Feb - Mar 2021 Australia tour of South Africa 2021
Matches: 3 Test
Venue: South Africa
Another year lacking test cricket with only 2-match test series.
 

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Can someone explain the old and new province system that was touched on in the main thread please
10/12 years ago cricket SA decided that rather than having the historical FC provincial system (12 teams or so); they would follow Aus and provide a franchise system of 6 teams; which in theory would allow for a higher standard of play.

Without touching on the troubling politics that led or is ongoing, from this next 2020/21 season the franchise system is meant to go away and go back to just a provincial system.

For many reason the franchise system has not worked out, but expense is a big issue and the quota system at franchise level, loss of players to kolpak etc has led to a weak franchise system. Now again with the change of the administration and the need to fix the FC system the discussion around the franchise continues. Just to be clear the provincial system still exists, but obviously this removes a 2 tier approach.
 
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SeamUp

International Coach
Here is the break down of teams.

Cobras (Western Province, Boland, SWD)

Warriors (Eastern Province, Border)

Dolphins (KZN Coastal, KZN Inland)

Knights (Free State , Northern Cape (old days Griquas)

Lions (Gauteng , North West)

Titans (Northerns, Easterns, Limpopo, Mpumalanga)


Traditional main powerhouses were KZN (Natal), Gauteng (Transvaal), Western Probvince, Eastern Province - Griquas (around the diamond rush were a main team) and then Rhodesia and Border had spells in the first division from 30s to 70s. Around the late 70s and 80s is when Northerns (North Eastern Transvaal) and Free State joined the top table and along with the first 4 are the basis of the main 6 franchises with the supporting provinces. But in the 90s is when the 11 provinces was the regular domestic structure until the franchise system came in 2004.


I'm a big believer in seeing which unions are producing cricketers from schoolboy level. Can they keep producing numbers and right now I'm not sure some unions are.

Boland (Henry, Telemachus, Williams, Ontong, Langeveldt, C.Henderson. Davids and now got guys like Stiaan van Zyl, Keegan Petersen, Bjorn Fortuin but others since joining uni like Bedingham, Ricardo Vasconcelos, Brandon Glover)

Border (So many T.Greig & his brother, McEwan, Kenny Watson, Boucher, Ntini, Strydom, Kemp, Cullinan but a lot moved to play for EP/WP. Now guys like Qeshile, Marais & Niemand)

Griquas (Problem is a lot of their guys move to Free State ie Rudi Steyn, Gehardus Liebenberg, Boeta Dippenaar, Victor Mpitsang, Ryan McLaren (Pat Symcox schooled there). Now Reeza Hendricks, Gihahn Cloete & not a lot)

North West (Not a lot until recent times - but the uni there has allowed vd Dussen, Alviro Petersen, Bjorn Fortuin + those schooled there to dominate the Lions team now like D.Pretorius, Lubbe, van den Bergh)

Easterns (Denis Lindsay & guys like Hylton Ackerman/Rudi Bryson schooled there & in modern era Andrew Hall, Andre Nel, Albie Morkel and the likes.

Limpopo rarely produces cricketers it is what makes Dale Steyn such a freak he is. Some others have come through recently to like Mbhalati, de Lange and Hawken.

SWD (Not enough quality yet. Rabie played domestics and now a couple of bowlers in Stuurman and Baartman which look decent for the level)

KZN Inland (Mainly due to their top boarding schools are always strong at u19 Coke Week)

I think the biggest positive is the bigger unions will help these teams with excess players when necessary as was always the case.
 
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StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Actually been impressed with Rudi Second in the field too.
Second is one the few older players I would really like given a real chance at Test level. Think he may actually have a high ceiling, but just taken time to get there.
 

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