South Africa team selection

[honestbharani]

You guys will have a serious team for the WT20 I reckon. With AB, Steyn and Tahir back.

 

[Dendarii]

If Verreynne keeps scoring runs like he is, very serious... I do think though that QDK should keep the gloves. Verreynne is good enough to play as a batsmen.

I'll stick to what I've said previoulsy. The best keeper takes the gloves, and anyone else needs to play as a batsman.

 

[Rasimione]

How serious will the de Kock and Verreynne keeping discussion get ?

We need De Kock the batsman more than the keeper. I want him to bat 5 at best. We have decent enough keepers to take his spot. Definitely a bit light with the batters.

 

[Rasimione]

I'll stick to what I've said previoulsy. The best keeper takes the gloves, and anyone else needs to play as a batsman.

By that metric Verryne wouldn't get in the side.

 

[StephenZA]

There is not a great deal we can do with our Test batting lineup. I think for right now it is as good as it will be. I personally would like to see Moore in and Markram dropped to 4. I don't see Rassie as a long term solution. Mulder should be playing at 7 for Dwaine sooner rather than later. And van Tonder and J Malan should be next cabs off the rank as far as rebuilding goes.

 

[Rasimione]

Aiden Makram has been ruled out for the remainder of the entire series. He's sustained a fractured finger.

 

[StephenZA]

I wonder if it is a continuation of the previous problem beyond just the dislocation yesterday? But hopefully this gives him a chance to get his head right again. I wonder if they just going to stick with P.Malan or call up Moore?

 

[TT Boy]

Never seen Moore but need to be cautious he isn’t another Cook e.g. solid pro feasting on substandard bowling. I like what I saw of the younger Malan.

 

[Dendarii]

I wonder if it is a continuation of the previous problem beyond just the dislocation yesterday?

Very possible. The initial diagnosis was that it was touch and go as to whether he'd be fit for this test, so maybe he could have benefited from a bit more recovery time. That's not necessarily the fault of whoever cleared him to play, but medical tests can't fully replicate what happens in a match.

I wonder if they just going to stick with P.Malan or call up Moore?

I think we'd all prefer Moore, but it would be a little unfair on Malan to have someone outside the squad take his place, so they might feel like they need to stick with him, and it being his home ground could help sway the decision. If Bavuma's fit then I suppose they might consider bringing him back and having Van der Dussen open as he's got experience there in domestic cricket. That would still be a bit of a slap in the face for Malan, but maybe not quite so much as it's not bringing in anybody from outside the squad.

 

[StephenZA]

I like J. Malan and want Raynard in the setup big time... but they seem to want to bring in the more experienced guys from FC level. Moore is about the perfect age to see what he is made of as an opener. He seems to have scored big when others are struggling around. I remember he carried his bat to a century last year when Morris went on one of his rampages and took 6 wickets in a Warriors/Titans game.

 

[SeamUp]

Never seen Moore but need to be cautious he isn’t another Cook e.g. solid pro feasting on substandard bowling. I like what I saw of the younger Malan.

Moore isn't pretty but I do think there could be a bit of dogged determination about him despite the awkwardness in his bat flow. Seems to have his tempo right while batting. Growing up on the coast I would like to think he is more adaptable than what I have seen from Janneman who should be in both white ball teams this summer so I would let him concentrate there first.

 

[Dendarii]

If you take a look at the stats from last season, both Malans and Moore all averaged 51, so stats-wise not a lot to choose between them other than perhaps Moore and Janneman scoring quicker.

Cobras
Warriors

This season, Pieter averages 33, Janneman 45.5, and Moore 54.22 (although if you take his 228 out then it drops to 32.5).

Cobras
Warriors

So what Pieter probably has going for him is his experience, as Stephen pointed out. But for now I don't think you can criticise them too much for picking the guys with more first-class experience as backup. We all know that selections need to be looked at and younger players brought into the mix, but they haven't had the time to do that, so the thinking appears to have been that even if the older guys might not quite be as good, they do know their craft, so aren't terrible choices as stopgaps.

 

[SeamUp]

Just trying to look for some footage of Eddie and came across this. How many times does Pieter Malan get out bowled like this playing a defensive stroke ? That is surely not good enough for a test opener ? It is exactly how he went out last week too.

0.50 on the video

 

[SeamUp]

Still the best out there. Moore is a bit stiff at the crease.

Janneman could work because of his natural free-scoring from ball one and lovely play square of the wicket on the off-side but I bet once teams work him out it could be a hard slog for him in red-ball cricket. Defensively I still have doubts about his compactness. Spin issues not so important for this tour.

 

[Dendarii]

Very possible. The initial diagnosis was that it was touch and go as to whether he'd be fit for this test, so maybe he could have benefited from a bit more recovery time. That's not necessarily the fault of whoever cleared him to play, but medical tests can't fully replicate what happens in a match.

It appears that it was the other hand, so not related.

 

[StephenZA]

Picking experienced players is great... but the reason to do so is that that they can contribute immediately. You don't want to have to be training them up. Therefore little to no rope must be given. If we take time trying to let these players learn international cricket we may as well pick the younger more talented guys and let them learn the international game, long run it is better for the team.

 

[StephenZA]

It appears that it was the other hand, so not related.

That must be super frustrating for him.

 

[Dendarii]

Picking experienced players is great... but the reason to do so is that that they can contribute immediately. You don't want to have to be training them up. Therefore little to no rope must be given. If we take time trying to let these players learn international cricket we may as well pick the younger more talented guys and let them learn the international game, long run it is better for the team.

I agree, although in this case it's possibly more not having had a chance to assess the younger guys. So I wouldn't be surprised to see Malan, Hendricks, and Paterson fall out of the squad before too long. Pretorius will probably stick around as so far he's done what might be expected of him, and Van der Dussen does have does have his performances in the shorter formats to support him, but possibly needs to redeem himself a bit today after not having a great game initially.

 

[StephenZA]

Assessing younger guys is all well and good, but players of quality are known pretty damn quickly. Both in temperament and ability almost straight away. Steyn was an 'unknown' that was a picked for SA with less than a years FC experience. Then he took another year of experience before being consistently picked in SA side. ABdV and Kallis were 20, Amla was 21, Smith 21, Gibbs 22 we could just keep on going. The advantage they had was coming into more settled teams. Bringing youngsters into unsettled teams is not great. But with the new coaching staff youngsters can be picked and a team rebuilt, because there is enough experience to be given.

 

[SeamUp]

Assessing younger guys is all well and good, but players of quality are known pretty damn quickly. Both in temperament and ability almost straight away. Steyn was an 'unknown' that was a picked for SA with less than a years FC experience. Then he took another year of experience before being consistently picked in SA side. ABdV and Kallis were 20, Amla was 21, Smith 21, Gibbs 22 we could just keep on going. The advantage they had was coming into more settled teams. Bringing youngsters into unsettled teams is not great. But with the new coaching staff youngsters can be picked and a team rebuilt, because there is enough experience to be given.

Problem is the education of young cricketers seems slower than it was then for whatever reasons. Quality of coaches in schoolboy cricket, club cricket, provincial and franchise cricket. Are they being challenged and bouncing ideas in a constructive way that Duncan Fletcher did for Gary Kirsten/Kallis or Woolmer did for that whole batting line up or Procter did for young Cronje at FS or Ford did for a young Rhodes/Pollock/Klusener at Natal. Can't remember who coached the other teams back then. Lets not even get into the hardened domestic cricketers SA had for young players to play with and then you add the likes of Desmond Haynes, Alvin Kallicaharan, Eldine Baptiste, Franklyn Stephenson, Sylvester Clarke, Malcolm Marshall and the likes.