The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[honestbharani]

Haha, clearly remember that period. Yuvraj had a good series in Pakistan when India made history by defeating them first time there. Chopra on the other hand had a poor series and continued to have the same against Australia. Yuvi was forced to open in Chennai. Glenn Mcgrath would be the last bowler you would want to face if you are spud opener Mcgrath didn't dismiss Yuvi as an opener but kept him in check until Warne dismissed him.

I remember watching Chopra's Test last innings at my grandmother's house. He looked truly ****ed as a player.

Ultimately I think it's hard to blame the selectors for your failings when you play ten Tests and average 23... but I do think in different circumstances he would've done much better. He kind of bought of his own meme as the new wall, but then at home he tried to continue it but was actually expected to make runs. He could've made runs IMO, but his MO was burned in by that point.

The problem was that Ganguly mentioned Yuvraj is our future opener right before or during that Pak tour, when he batted well after coming in due to someone's injury. And I think Parthiv opened so that the middle order bats were not removed "from their comfort zones" as the vice-captain Dravid put it.

 

[srbhkshk]

These two posts are actually related. Ganguly got it into his head that he could turn any random middle order aggressive batsman into an opener and decided that Yuvraj was the next for that route and shafted Chopra, destroying both their test careers in that process. One of the areas where Ganguly's captaincy is overrated. He stuck gold with Sehwag but then got greedy for more.

Wasn't it somewhat forced though - it's not like there was any place in the middle order. Any batsman who wanted in had to be an opener.

 

[ankitj]

Kohli meanwhile has moved to #1 test batting ranking.

There used to be a thread for ICC ratings. Which one was it?

 

[sunilz]

According to my rough calculation Kohli has now spent 18 test matches in his career at greater than equal to 900 ratings point . Here is the list of old batsmen who have spent more test matches at or above 900 ratings point than Kohli

Garry Sobers( 30)
Donald Bradman (28)
Len Hutton(25)
Peter May(22)
Ricky Ponting(17)

Smith must has have overtaken Garry Sobers considering he touched 900 rating point in June 2015 . Also need data for Sangakkara and Kallis . Request AndrewB to provide the data as he is expert in this.

 

[honestbharani]

Wasn't it somewhat forced though - it's not like there was any place in the middle order. Any batsman who wanted in had to be an opener.

Not at the cost of two guys' careers. Yuvi had to do a Laxman and state he will not open after Greg Chapell came in. You cannot simply get folks to open just because there is no room in the middle order. Sehwag was the exception who proved the rule, really.

 

[srbhkshk]

Not at the cost of two guys' careers. Yuvi had to do a Laxman and state he will not open after Greg Chapell came in. You cannot simply get folks to open just because there is no room in the middle order. Sehwag was the exception who proved the rule, really.

Well, getting to play is probably better than not getting to play at all. And for what it's worth Yuvi did get his chances in the middle order too - he just wasn't a good enough test player.

Also I'm just gonna say(not specifically about your comment) that this "exception who proved the rule" schtick is remarkably stupid.

 

[honestbharani]

Well, getting to play is probably better than not getting to play at all. And for what it's worth Yuvi did get his chances in the middle order too - he just wasn't a good enough test player.

Also I'm just gonna say(not specifically about your comment) that this "exception who proved the rule" schtick is remarkably stupid.

Nah... otherwise the word "exceptional" would not be considered such a compliment.

And no, Yuvi was not "given" chances in the middle order, he was genuinely among the top 4 middle order bats in our country for a number of years and earned his slot there. I agree his failures as an opener alone did not impact his career but I do think they played a part, as he was in very very good form and on top of his game in Pak in 2004 but then his confidence was shot after the BG Trophy in India. He did make the comeback and did have a decent career but at least to me, he could have done a lot better had the mess up not happened. Agree it is a subjective opinion though.

 

[Days of Grace]

It would be good to have an average ICC rating across a player’s career. As in total rating points divided by matches. But I’m not sure how one would do this.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I remember thinking as a kid Sad Ramesh was really good

Shiv Sundar Das and Wasim Jaffer i felt the same way for.

 

[Noumenon]

Shiv Sundar Das and Wasim Jaffer i felt the same way for.

Sundar's low center of gravity seduced and fooled many of us.

 

[Red]

According to my rough calculation Kohli has now spent 18 test matches in his career at greater than equal to 900 ratings point . Here is the list of old batsmen who have spent more test matches at or above 900 ratings point than Kohli

Garry Sobers( 30)
Donald Bradman (28)
Len Hutton(25)
Peter May(22)
Ricky Ponting(17)

Smith must has have overtaken Garry Sobers considering he touched 900 rating point in June 2015 . Also need data for Sangakkara and Kallis . Request AndrewB to provide the data as he is expert in this.

I find it bizarre that Bradman wouldn't have spent his entire career on the maximum points. I mean, surely.

 

[h_hurricane]

I find it bizarre that Bradman wouldn't have spent his entire career on the maximum points. I mean, surely.

Not bizarre at all. Even if it was Bradman, you would take at least 10-12 games at the start of your career to reach 900 points. And from that point, he would be there till the very end only occasionally dropping off.
Probably WW 2 didn't help him either. I am not sure though if players are penalized for not playing any games for 5-6 years.

 

[Days of Grace]

I think batsmen missing games for their teams penalizes them. So Bradman would have only lost points for not playing that test vs NZ in 1946.

 

[Coronis]

I think batsmen missing games for their teams penalizes them. So Bradman would have only lost points for not playing that test vs NZ in 1946.

Correct, I remember checking this out when Smith came back. A player loses 1% of his total rating for every match missed, whether due to injury, suspension etc. Time isn’t a factor.

 

[sunilz]

Bradman reached 900 ratings points after playing 22 test matches.

 

[Red]

Bradman reached 900 ratings points after playing 22 test matches.

Is he the quickest to 900 points?

 

[Chrish]

Smith has suppressed Viv in terms of test hundreds! Viv has 24 hundreds in 182 innings while Smith right now has 26 in 126 innings!

I mean Smith does have a benefit of batting on Australian roads but still this is ridiculous..

 

[OverratedSanity]

Hussey got to 900 in just 20 tests

 

[NUFAN]

Smith has suppressed Viv in terms of test hundreds! Viv has 24 hundreds in 182 innings while Smith right now has 26 in 126 innings!

I mean Smith does have a benefit of batting on Australian roads but still this is ridiculous..

In 35 Tests in Australia, Smith has 13 100s
In 35 Tests outside of Australia, Smith has 13 100s

But okay..

 

[AndrewB]

According to my rough calculation Kohli has now spent 18 test matches in his career at greater than equal to 900 ratings point . Here is the list of old batsmen who have spent more test matches at or above 900 ratings point than Kohli

Garry Sobers( 30)
Donald Bradman (28)
Len Hutton(25)
Peter May(22)
Ricky Ponting(17)

Smith must has have overtaken Garry Sobers considering he touched 900 rating point in June 2015 . Also need data for Sangakkara and Kallis . Request AndrewB to provide the data as he is expert in this.

It's actually a pain trying to calculate this, because ratings are given by date, not by match, and change on the date when a match ends, while the match dates as given on Cricinfo are the start dates.

But I think that Smith has now passed Sobers, and that Kohli, Richards and Hobbs are the other players with 10+ matches at 900+.