The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Red]

Never said McGrath isn’t an ATG. Just said if McGrath is a Top Tier, Donald should be too. McGrath, Ambrose and Donald were pretty much even.

Spare us mate, as if this wasn't intended to me inflammatory....

Devil’s Advocate here

Is Glen McGrath the greatest or even Top 3 bowler?

1. He averages 29 in SriLanka and 31 in Pakistan.

2. He has taken 1 5WPI in 17 Tests in Asia.

3. He never played against the best team of his era(Aus)

4. Against the second best team of his era(SA), he averages 27 and has a SR of 71.

 

[Red]

Nobody stood out from the rest of the pack in late 90s because they were all equals. There weren’t any great bowlers from 2001 to Steyn’s emergence so it would have been easier to stand out from the ATVG bowlers. I have watched them bowl and I rate Donald higher than McGrath. Any of the 90s bowlers would have stood out in the pre Steyn era. The main reason McGrath gets rated higher is because he played for Australia and had a longer career.

Oh, Christ!

 

[ataraxia]

Just take a look at the standardised average list. He's below Pollock and Philander. Obviously that isn't true in our eyes, but it would take quite a lot to overtake McGrath at number one.

 

[jimmy101]

I'd probably place that list in my top 5 meaningless lists list.

 

[kyear2]

I don't know. For me the eye test was quite clear and for that era told me;

McGrath, Ambrose, Donald and Akram in that order.

But sometimes we have to use statistics. Most of us didn't see Trueman so all we have are stats and comtemporanious reports.
So no reason we can't use a combination of all 3 to judge the players of more recent vintage as well.

 

[Burgey]

Donald only top 30 and at best Top 15 ? There should be a maximum of 5 spots between Mcgrath and him objectively.

Mate, there is nothing objective when choosing between players of this calibre. It’s purely opinion becaus they’re all awesome. Some people will want Akram for left arm variety, some will want a swing bowler, others an out-and-put quick. When you’re talking about choosing players with a point or two between them average-wise, it’s really not a matter of being objective. It’s a matter of preference.

 

[AndrewB]

In what order would you rank:

The 4s: Cook, Boon, Lara, Root, Hill, Rice, Ames, Tate, Vaas, Bond, Bedi
The 5s: Hobbs, Grace, Crowe, Smith, Kohli, Waugh, Imran, Knott, Akram, Warne, Steyn
The 6s: Hutton, Morris, Kallis, Weekes, Border, Flower, Sobers, Benaud, Hadlee, Lillee, Barnes
The 7s: Boycott, Trumper, Bradman, Headley, Hammond, Ponting, Lindsay, Pollock, O'Reilly, Ambrose, McGrath
The 8s: Gavaskar, Richards, Richards, Chappell, Mohammad, Faulkner, Oldfield, Davidson, Lindwall, Marshall, Grimmett
The 9s: Sutcliffe, Greenidge, Pietersen, Tendulkar, Viswanath, Armstrong, Gilchrist, Spofforth, Richardson, Underwood, McDermott

 

[ataraxia]

7
5
8
6







4
9

Nice idea. Could make 9 into 9+ and get the likes of Mura and Sanga.

 

[mr_mister]

In what order would you rank:

The 4s: Cook, Boon, Lara, Root, Hill, Rice, Ames, Tate, Vaas, Bond, Bedi
The 5s: Hobbs, Grace, Crowe, Smith, Kohli, Waugh, Imran, Knott, Akram, Warne, Steyn
The 6s: Hutton, Morris, Kallis, Weekes, Border, Flower, Sobers, Benaud, Hadlee, Lillee, Barnes
The 7s: Boycott, Trumper, Bradman, Headley, Hammond, Ponting, Lindsay, Pollock, O'Reilly, Ambrose, McGrath
The 8s: Gavaskar, Richards, Richards, Chappell, Mohammad, Faulkner, Oldfield, Davidson, Lindwall, Marshall, Grimmett
The 9s: Sutcliffe, Greenidge, Pietersen, Tendulkar, Viswanath, Armstrong, Gilchrist, Spofforth, Richardson, Underwood, McDermott

I must be dumb, what's the method to the groups here?

 

[Prince EWS]

I must be dumb, what's the method to the groups here?

Letters in surname.

 

[Logan]

Spare us mate, as if this wasn't intended to me inflammatory....

So telling Glen McGrath isn’t a Top 3 bowler is an inflammatory post.

What bullshit

 

[kyear2]

Some here try to protest that there are so many bowlers with legitimate claims to the best ever. And that's there's really nothing in it. But realistically there are at max 4 fast bowlers who can lay claim to the throne. And McGrath is one of them.

 

[CricAddict]

All these lists of the decade show that Jadeja is still massively under-rated by everyone. He has been the best all-rounder in this decade and still not even considered in anyone's team.

Warner, Cook, Williamson, Kohli, Smith, Shakib, Jadeja, Dhoni, Cummins, Steyn, Anderson will be my team. 3 pacers, 2 spinners and genuine batting upto 9.

 

[mr_mister]

Some here try to protest that there are so many bowlers with legitimate claims to the best ever. And that's there's really nothing in it. But realistically there are at max 4 fast bowlers who can lay claim to the throne. And McGrath is one of them.

Name those 4

And I'll tell you why one of McGrath, Ambrose, Hadlee, Steyn or Marshall deserves consideration

 

[CricAddict]

Name those 4

And I'll tell you why one of McGrath, Ambrose, Hadlee, Steyn or Marshall deserves consideration

Marshall, Ambrose and Mcgrath are top 3. Then we have the next set of 4-5 ATGs at a slight inch below them.

 

[Logan]

Marshall, Hadlee and Steyn are the top three IMO.

McGrath, Ambrose, Donald, Imran and Trueman are slightly below the top three.

 

[ataraxia]

6 can lay claim: Marshall, McG, Steyn, Ambrose, Hadlee, and arguably Barnes.

 

[Logan]

If we are going to include Barnes, we should talk also include Lohmann and Spofforth.

 

[ataraxia]

Look at the 100 bowlers list by DoG. Lohmann and Spofforth aren't really in contention for the top spot.

 

[mr_mister]

Yeah Barnes at least faced Faulkner and Taylor in his 49 wicket series

Lohmann bowled when specialist bats usually averaged 25