The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[stephen]

May could replace Viv at 5. Had a ridiculous peak but ended with a career average of 47. I'd like Sanga in there too as keeper. I could have him for his 01/02 peak while keeping where he averaged around 70 over a good 11 tests.

 

[marc71178]

Hadlee, Marshall, Steyn and Warne would be the best tail in history. All those bowlers were genuine number 8s.

If my team were bowling and Steyn walked in at 8, I’d be pretty pleased.

 

[trundler]

Anyway it's just for fun. Gilchrist and Warne didn't perfectly for the criteria. Murali doesn't either, though probably does by about as much as Warne.

Maybe I could drop Hayden and replace him with Amla, who I remember being utterly ridiculous at his peak.

Amla
Trumper~
Yousef
Clarke
Richards~
Botham
Gilchrist~
Imran
Johnson
Warne~
Waqar

~looking for a better option.

Morris to replace Trumper. Harvey had an outstanding peak as well and then followed it with a long stretch where he barely averaged 40. Gibbs's WPM dipped significantly as his career went on.

 

[stephen]

If my team were bowling and Steyn walked in at 8, I’d be pretty pleased.

He batted there in a reasonable number of tests. He batted 9 in more and 10 the most but RSA has had Philander for a lot of his career and Peterson/Nel/Harris and other lesser bowlers tended to bat ahead of him. But he easily was good enough to bat 8 regularly. How many teams have had bowlers with the batting ability that the South African bowlers have had? Not many.

 

[MrPrez]

He batted there in a reasonable number of tests. He batted 9 in more and 10 the most but RSA has had Philander for a lot of his career and Peterson/Nel/Harris and other lesser bowlers tended to bat ahead of him. But he easily was good enough to bat 8 regularly. How many teams have had bowlers with the batting ability that the South African bowlers have had? Not many.

There was a period where Steyn said he wanted to develop his batting to a point where he could be considered an AR, but it certainly never happened. He's okay at 9 as a useful tailender but number 8 is a spot too high for him imo.

I mean, you mention Nel batting ahead of him (which admittedly I don't recall being the case) - Nel averaged under 10 in Test cricket so that would be indicative in and of itself. Steyn was better with the willow than Nel, though.

 

[stephen]

Peak XI:

Amla
Morris
Yousef
Clarke
May
Botham
Sangakkara+
Imran
Johnson
Waqar
Gibbs

 

[vcs]

Ashwin is a decent shout for Peak XI. Had people speculating whether he'd go on to match Murali's numbers around 2016. Plus he was making runs.

904 R. Ashwin IND 904 v England, 12/12/2016

Just one point below Warne's peak rating from Ankit's link above.

 

[stephen]

Ashwin is a decent shout for Peak XI. Had people speculating whether he'd go on to match Murali's numbers around 2016. Plus he was making runs.



Just one point below Warne's peak rating from Ankit's link above.

Has he declined though? Or has he simply had to play more overseas tests?

 

[vcs]

Both. Didn't bowl that well even on helpful wickets for the last 2 years (before the recent SA series).

 

[Logan]

Can ABD be considered as the best or even second best SA Test batsman?

1. Joint Highest Peak Rating by a SA batsman

2. A 39+ average against all nations

3. A 40+ average in all countries he has played

4. An average of 53, 60, 42 and 39 in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th innings respectively

5. An average of 55 away from home

 

[MrPrez]

No. Kallis and Pollock were better. Richards probably too.

 

[Logan]

Barry Richards played 4 Tests. Graeme Pollock played 23 Tests.

 

[MrPrez]

Barry Richards played 4 Tests. Graeme Pollock played 23 Tests.

Correct.

 

[Coronis]

Barry Richards played 4 Tests. Graeme Pollock played 23 Tests.

Love a good statement of fact.

 

[harsh.ag]

I have ABdV as the best SA bat ever.

 

[MrPrez]

I have ABdV as the best SA bat ever.

Only if you include ODIs and T20s - then you're bang on. But Kallis was certainly better in Tests, and Pollock and Richards are both better too, imo.

 

[vcs]

Depends on whether you are doing a format-weighted kind of assessment, in that case, AB would have a good case to be SA's best ever bat. For Tests alone, Kallis > AB by a pretty decent margin.

I had both Smith and Amla in about the same tier as AB in Tests around 2012, but Amla's protracted decline made his numbers really suffer.

 

[Burgey]

McGrath is at most an equivalent of Ambrose. Imran and co are at that same level.

McGrath averaged what Hadlee and Marshall did in a batting dominated era on the flattest decks since the 1930s. He’s the greatest bowler of all time.

 

[Burgey]

Peak XI:

Amla
Morris
Yousef
Clarke
May
Botham
Sangakkara+
Imran
Johnson
Waqar
Gibbs

How doesn’t TPC make a peak XI?

 

[MrPrez]

Depends on whether you are doing a format-weighted kind of assessment, in that case, AB would have a good case to be SA's best ever bat. For Tests alone, Kallis > AB by a pretty decent margin.

I had both Smith and Amla in about the same tier as AB in Tests around 2012, but Amla's protracted decline made his numbers really suffer.

I'd have AB above Smith. Amla and AB is a tough one that I think could go either way; Amla is hurt heavily by his decline as you said.