South Africa team selection

[StephenZA]

Biggest concern I have following this series is Faf.

He was the man we needed to build a team around short term, meant to have the experience, knowledge and leadership to help the young guys. His tactics the entire series was not good, and I'm did not feel like he gave much leadership. I don't know how much Nkwe has had a say on any of this, but find it difficult to believe that he had some sort of unilateral control over anything. The entire squad felt like it was picked with this game plan in mind before the SA 'A' team even landed in India. I don't know what to do about Faf, but something just does not feel right.

 

[SeamUp]

As far as batting is concerned.

Elgar , Markram, Faf, QdK should be safe unless Faf retires
Hamza deserves a run in the team
De Bruyn, Bavuma, Klaasen, Muthusamy back to domestic cricket

Experienced options
P.Malan - dire SA A , domestic runs
R.Hendricks - hasn't scored runs consistently his whole career
Second - recent 4-day form not been as dominant as it once was. Been good for SA A without being dominant (similar to Hamza).
Van der Dussen - they may want to see if he can transfer limited overs success.
Zondo - average domestic & worse SA A averaging 15 after 9 games & blocking someone else getting an opportunity.
* Suppose you can add Van Jaarsveld, van Biljon, Behardien too.

26 & under (players in bold in MSL starting in a couple weeks). Unfortunately limited overs cricket taking front seat.

J.Malan, Bedingham, Verreynne, Smith
Moore, Breetzke, Qeshile
Roelofsen, Ackerman
Van Tonder, Petersen
Richards, Rickelton , Mulder

 

[SeamUp]

Biggest concern I have following this series is Faf.

He was the man we needed to build a team around short term, meant to have the experience, knowledge and leadership to help the young guys. His tactics the entire series was not good, and I'm did not feel like he gave much leadership. I don't know how much Nkwe has had a say on any of this, but find it difficult to believe that he had some sort of unilateral control over anything. The entire squad felt like it was picked with this game plan in mind before the SA 'A' team even landed in India. I don't know what to do about Faf, but something just does not feel right.

Supposedly Faf was not happy about how they came to speak to him about who next captain should be and timing.

The fact they made Bavuma vice is probably sign.

But lets be honest the captaincy has been weak since the Sri Lanka test home loss and the absolute pathetic meek and mild world cup.

I'm also not sure what to do with Faf. The fact he is a very proud individual makes me think he will stick out the England test series and bite the bullet working with the current coaching staff and directives by CSA but not sure it will be positive at all for SA cricket.

 

[StephenZA]

Supposedly Faf was not happy about how they came to speak to him about who next captain should be and timing.

I cannot understand this, unless he felt he was being pushed; there has to be a succession plan, look what happened to SA when Smith suddenly retired. I do think that Makram's recent poor performances have not helped the situation.

The fact they made Bavuma vice is probably sign.

But lets be honest the captaincy has been weak since the Sri Lanka test home loss and the absolute pathetic meek and mild world cup.

I'm also not sure what to do with Faf. The fact he is a very proud individual makes me think he will stick out the England test series and bite the bullet working with the current coaching staff and directives by CSA but not sure it will be positive at all for SA cricket.

They also made QDK a captain? It feels like they are trying to test out different options.

 

[SeamUp]

I cannot understand this, unless he felt he was being pushed; there has to be a succession plan, look what happened to SA when Smith suddenly retired. I do think that Makram's recent poor performances have not helped the situation.

They also made QDK a captain? It feels like they are trying to test out different options.

Maybe a chat after the tour ? New coaching staff. I think there were bigger tasks to focus on. Have a group of senior players behind him and they can be involved in all tactical chats or whatever.

At least QdK is secure in the team from his performances over a period of time.

 

[StephenZA]

Right now I feel like the team is being dictated from the top. And I know that people bring up quotas, which is a problem on domestic level, however squad selection was lacking.

Muthusamy and Piedt (do well or not) this was going to be there only likely tour. They did deserve their call up based on domestic performance, even if we had questions around them. Unfortunately Piedt was horrendous, Muthusmay was pretty much as predicted (SeamUp predicted!). But that is over and done with not going to see them again.

Selections of Second was good, replacing him with Klaasens was terrible. The non-selection of Mulder is still baffling, must be because of youth/inexperience, but I totally disagree. Nortje selection was good. He and Ngidi struggled which is not surprising, India is tough for touring seamers. They will take time to settle.

QDK must never open in Test cricket again, should not play higher than 5 and in the batting and needs to keep. Anything else and we are weakening the team and taking away a big part of what he gives the team.

So ultimately the questions sit around Bavuma and de Bruyn. We knew that, we have always known that. Unfortunately as somebody previously said Bavuma has not done great, but he was also never the worst performing of the bats until this last couple of series. Why Hamza was playing behind either of those two is beyond me. Watching him yesterday scoring the runs, the extra class and time he showed on the ball was just something we have barely seen this entire series from any SA batsmen, (maybe QDK 1st test innings). And coming back to it, having van der Dussen and Klaasens as back up batsmen was just terrible terrible selection, they are simply not the quality required. We might as well keep Bavuma and de Bruyn then.

This whole series feel like a throw away series from the selectors and CSA. They know what they need to do to a certain extent, but threw everybody to the wolves during this series while they sorted there **** at home out.

 

[StephenZA]

Maybe a chat after the tour ? New coaching staff. I think there were bigger tasks to focus on. Have a group of senior players behind him and they can be involved in all tactical chats or whatever.

At least QdK is secure in the team from his performances over a period of time.

If they just came to him middle of the tour then stupid... was it the case of coaching staff walking up to him and asking? I find that difficult to believe.

 

[SeamUp]

If they just came to him middle of the tour then stupid... was it the case of coaching staff walking up to him and asking? I find that difficult to believe.

Fair enough. We don't know the exacts so rather go what Graeme Smith said on comms or was it Pollock ? Seemed like it was uncomfortable and they seemed to mention Faf's thoughts too. Maybe he is too touchy but we will never know.

 

[Bahseph]

I just don't see how we can pick de Bruyn, Bavuma and Piedt again. How do you justify it? Our fast bowlers weren't great, but Rabada and Philander were used so strangely in the first game that they didn't even have a chance to be impactful.

Linde impressed me. But I realized that he played over Muthusamy for the third game because they had absolutely no confidence in Piedt,which is a damning indictment on how he bowled in this series. I don't think we will see Muthusamy for a long time, but i don't think he is going to be written off the way I think Piedt will be.

 

[Bahseph]

On Faf, he does seem to be very sensitive imo. Just with the things I've heard in the media. And it's obvious that if Bavuma started scoring 100s he would be captain. Well, that's the feeling I get. The media does push it.

 

[Bahseph]

Just to further express what I meant, I think Muthusamy would have got three Tests. He failed in the second one yes, but there was no way we were going in with him and Piedt. Look, I like Piedt, but something has changed with his bowling? I don't have access to older footage but is it the action? I remember him having a doosra?

 

[StephenZA]

Bavuma may be a very good captain/leader, did a good job at the Lions. But he is not of sufficient quality at Test level. In the days gone by when we had Kallis, Amla, ABdV, you could hide a 'Duminy' at 5/6 that is no longer possible in this team.

 

[StephenZA]

Just to further express what I meant, I think Muthusamy would have got three Tests. He failed in the second one yes, but there was no way we were going in with him and Piedt. Look, I like Piedt, but something has changed with his bowling? I don't have access to older footage but is it the action? I remember him having a doosra?

Apparently dislocated shoulder badly awhile back and has never been the same since? Not 100% certain though.

 

[Bahseph]

Bavuma may be a very good captain/leader, did a good job at the Lions. But he is not of sufficient quality at Test level. In the days gone by when we had Kallis, Amla, ABdV, you could hide a 'Duminy' at 5/6 that is no longer possible in this team.

That is it. Duminy also had the bowling going for him for a while, and did play the odd great innings. Let me not digress, but tough decisions have to be made now. If the selectors have really decided that it's a rebuilding phase, then it's time to back the guys we see playing for us in 5 years.

 

[Dendarii]

Pedit was the leading wicket taker in domestic cricket last season, with 54 wickets at an average of 28. So from that perspective his selection was entirely justified, which means that some serious questions need to be asked about why he was so poor in India, on pitches which you would have expected to suit him better.

The same also goes for Maharaj. The expectation would have been that he would have been a key weapon for South Africa in this series, and he wasn't. And while it's not the only reason for our dismal performance, the inability of our spinners to do much meant that we were always going to be up against it.

 

[Dendarii]

Let me not digress, but tough decisions have to be made now.

I think we all agree with that, but the big question is whether CSA will.

 

[SeamUp]

Pedit was the leading wicket taker in domestic cricket last season, with 54 wickets at an average of 28. So from that perspective his selection was entirely justified, which means that some serious questions need to be asked about why he was so poor in India, on pitches which you would have expected to suit him better.

The same also goes for Maharaj. The expectation would have been that he would have been a key weapon for South Africa in this series, and he wasn't. And while it's not the only reason for our dismal performance, the inability of our spinners to do much meant that we were always going to be up against it.

I would say our actual quick bowling and facing of quick bowling was the biggest concern. If they were better than they were we wouldn't have needed 2 spinners or at least not needed to bowl them as much and maybe used Maharaj when we needed to and got his confidence going.

Their batsmen averaged 75 v pace and ours were like 20 or something.

Shami/Umesh bowl short balls with new ball and got Elgar/De Kock out with them. They were accurate and unrelenting unlike our fast bowlers besides Rabada when he was finding himself.

Bahspeh touched on it but some of our home test pitches have been to easy for our fast bowlers to hide with. We see the failings at Durban year on year and like Sri Lanka when it got flat. When the going gets tough on a flat wicket in SA who would stands up ? We now need to find who they are moving forward. No more Dale Steyn etc

 

[Dendarii]

I would say our actual quick bowling and facing of quick bowling was the biggest concern. If they were better than they were we wouldn't have needed 2 spinners or at least not needed to bowl them as much and maybe used Maharaj when we needed to and got his confidence going.

Their batsmen averaged 75 v pace and ours were like 20 or something.

Shami/Umesh bowl short balls with new ball and got Elgar/De Kock out with them. They were accurate and unrelenting unlike our fast bowlers besides Rabada when he was finding himself.

Bahspeh touched on it but some of our home test pitches have been to easy for our fast bowlers to hide with. We see the failings at Durban year on year and like Sri Lanka when it got flat. When the going gets tough on a flat wicket in SA who would stands up ? We now need to find who they are moving forward. No more Dale Steyn etc

Yeah, I guess in the light of the Indian pace bowlers' performance, our quicks don't look particularly good. Although they were the more economical, which meant that even if they had been able keep things tight, there was a release of pressure when the spinners came on.

But the bottom line is that nobody comes out of this series with any sort of credit (with the possible exception of Hamza and Linde).

 

[Bahseph]

Another point I'd like to make is that if we ever saw a repeat of the pitches we gave India when they toured, I doubt our batsmen would be able to cope. AB is gone.

 

[Bahseph]

I haven't seen much of Linde before this, so I'm hoping SeamUp fills in the gaps. But could he be our number two behind Maharaj? He just looked up for it. Even when Yadav went after him you got the feeling he was trying to get him out and now trying to not be hit for six.