South Africa team selection

[MrPrez]

It really is the worst sport to be a quota player in if you're below par. Individual performances across a period of time are so easily analysed with math/numbers, as opposed to rugby and soccer. Bavuma is just so not fit to bat in the top 6, the statistics don't lie - he must know it himself and probably feels terrible about it at times. Undroppable despite better bats waiting in the wings

Short term pain for long term gain I guess, I understand the reason for quotas - but I dunno how he's meant to inspire a future generation of black kids to pick up a bat if he's not scoring any runs lol

To be fair to him, he's been no more mediocre than most of our other batsmen recently.

I'm not a fan at all, but considering that guys like de Bruyn have been waiting in the wings, we've hardly got a cupboard of batsmen waiting to do well at Test level tomorrow.

 

[StephenZA]

The lack of selection of Hamza. Along with long term selection loyalty has always caused problems. Duminy all over again.

 

[Pup Clarke]

I'm worried Mulder is going to be selected for the England series and Anderson/Broad will be all over him - and then SA back to square one. This really was the ideal series to blood him, as unless he had an absolute shocker with the bat, there would have been something to gain as India were huge favourites

 

[StephenZA]

Mulder should have played in every which way this series. Better batting option and long term prospect, he would have allowed SA to play Piedt as an attacking spinner (good or bad) without compromising the seam bowling.

I just don't know what management want out of this tour at the moment. Feels like a treading water tour while they decide what happens at the top and the way forward.

 

[TheJammyTurtle]

What was the point of that A tour before this senior one if someone like Mulder who impressed on it had no chance of being a late draft into the squad?

 

[SeamUp]

De Bruyn & Bavuma should be finished after this series. Hamza and Mulder in.

We can get rid of the spinning all-rounder to go back to a seamer all-rounder when we get home asas above.

Probably Vernon's last sub-continent tour.

Markram/Maharaj need to get back to peak performance. Playing at home may help.

 

[StephenZA]

de Bruyn and Bavuma should be gone before Eng tour. Mulder in for Muthusamy. Hamza in. I don't want to see Klaasens, van der Dussen in the squad at all. Sorry they are not the future.

Right now I would not be against them bringing in E. Moore or J.Malan and pushing Markram down the order. But I want SA to start selecting the van Tonder, Breetzke, Qeshile sooner rather than later. Not gonna do worse than what is currently happening and as long as they can learn and improve it will be better for the future. Neil Brand seems to be showing good form?

 

[SeamUp]

de Bruyn and Bavuma should be gone before Eng tour. Mulder in for Muthusamy. Hamza in. I don't want to see Klaasens, van der Dussen in the squad at all. Sorry they are not the future.

Right now I would not be against them bringing in E. Moore or J.Malan and pushing Markram down the order. But I want SA to start selecting the van Tonder, Breetzke, Qeshile sooner rather than later. Not gonna do worse than what is currently happening and as long as they can learn and improve it will be better for the future. Neil Brand seems to be showing good form?

Van der Dussen will probably be first reserve for England test series and wouldn't be surprised if he captains SA A v England.

Neil Brand reminds me of Stiaan van Zyl in a way. Very aesthetically pleasing. One too watch for sure but I am always concerned with the late comer from club cricket in our cricket on how much talent they can fall back on when the quality gets higher. Also tough to judge until we see him more and we will only see that in white ball cricket unfortunately.

But if you a young cricketer in SA right now and seeing how things are, you should be trying to make your play. Opportunity is there.

 

[Dendarii]

de Bruyn and Bavuma should be gone before Eng tour. Mulder in for Muthusamy. Hamza in. I don't want to see Klaasens, van der Dussen in the squad at all. Sorry they are not the future.

Van der Dussen might not be the future, but you can still potentially get 3-4 good years out of him if he hits the ground running and keeps it up (obviously that's by no means guaranteed), which gives the youngsters a bit more time to mature and he does bring a lot of first-class experience, which could help. He's not a long-term solution, but could be a short-term one to stop the rot.

 

[StephenZA]

van der Dussen is likely to be reserve. They not likely to drop Bavuma either. But I do not think that they are fixing problems by keeping them around. Maybe a short stop gap waiting for what the younger talented players? The talent of the those players are clear; as long as they are given the chance to develop. Going to learn more at international level than at franchise at the moment.

I very much have a sink or swim attitude right now. Tough but I think needed to bring the team back to the top. I think we need a strict disciplinarian controlling and managing the team as well.

 

[StephenZA]

Neil Brand reminds me of Stiaan van Zyl in a way. Very aesthetically pleasing. One too watch for sure but I am always concerned with the late comer from club cricket in our cricket on how much talent they can fall back on when the quality gets higher. Also tough to judge until we see him more and we will only see that in white ball cricket unfortunately.

He was playing in Eng right, family moved there when he was younger? Unable to stay because he could not get a visa so came back to SA?

 

[SeamUp]

He was playing in Eng right, family moved there when he was younger? Unable to stay because he could not get a visa so came back to SA?

Something like that. Kruger van Wyk then roped him in at Tuks.

 

[SeamUp]

Prince wants this to be his top 5

Elgar
Markram
Hamza
QdK
Faf

Still not convinced converting QdK to a batsman so I keep him 6 myself with Mulder 7.

 

[StephenZA]

Yeah. QDK 6, Mulder 7. Faf should go to 4 and we find somebody for the no 5 spot.

 

[StephenZA]

It is interesting to look at the start of Smiths career and who he was playing with, along with what the team looked like when he started his captaincy. Because that was the start of the last rebuilding phase. He had some huge assets in Pollock, Kallis and Gary Kirsten. You had Gibbs in the team, who while very talented only avged 41 at test level. Else players like J Rudolph, N Mckenzie (first iteration) and Boeta Dippenaar none of whom inspired confidence or had good careers. Followed by Zander de Bruyn, Martin van Jaarsveld etc. Outside Pollock and Ntini bowling attack was not great. And we had the fighting spirit of Boucher. It was a few years before Steyn, AbdV and Amla etc came in.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...south-africa-tour-of-england-and-ireland-2003
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...st-test-south-africa-tour-of-pakistan-2003-04
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...test-west-indies-tour-of-south-africa-2003-04
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...test-south-africa-tour-of-new-zealand-2003-04

That entire team was built around Kallis an ageing Kirsten, and a tenacious young captain. With Pollock and Ntini holding up the bowling. And an indefatigable Boucher in a support role.

I look at our current team and I actually see as much if not more raw talent in Markram and QDK. Elgar and Faf as the building roles like Kirsten. Philander as a Pollock lite. With a potentially much stronger bowling line up. What I don't see in our current line up is tenacity and strength of mind. The fact that Philander, Muthusamy and Maharaj are showing more fight than some of our top order batsmen is not a good sign.

Think Mulder down at 7 is going to make a big difference to the team and I have a great deal of respect for Hamza. One more quality talented batsmen will change the batting line up. But what I want to see more than anything from any incoming batsmen is fight. We are missing strength of mind. It is one of the few reasons I think Rassie might not be a terrible choice, he feels like that old school fighting player.

 

[Dendarii]

With a potentially much stronger bowling line up.

Bowling is not our problem right now. We may have lost Steyn, Morkel, Abbott, and Olivier, but Ngidi and Nortje, although largely untested are hardly shabby replacements and there are a number of potentials in domestic cricket right now. So our fast bowling stocks, while inexperienced, are as good as they've ever been, and if this series turns out just to be a blip in Maharaj's career then we're sorted on that side of things.

So our bowling being so good is always going to keep us competitive, but the problem is when the bowlers aren't able to make sufficient inroads and the batsmen have to step up. Their inability to do so is what cost us against Sri Lanka, and now against India. Obviously, better bowling would have made a difference, but that still doesn't excuse the poor batting performances.

 

[StephenZA]

Bowling is not our problem right now. We may have lost Steyn, Morkel, Abbott, and Olivier, but Ngidi and Nortje, although largely untested are hardly shabby replacements and there are a number of potentials in domestic cricket right now. So our fast bowling stocks, while inexperienced, are as good as they've ever been, and if this series turns out just to be a blip in Maharaj's career then we're sorted on that side of things.

So our bowling being so good is always going to keep us competitive, but the problem is when the bowlers aren't able to make sufficient inroads and the batsmen have to step up. Their inability to do so is what cost us against Sri Lanka, and now against India. Obviously, better bowling would have made a difference, but that still doesn't excuse the poor batting performances.

Sorry poorly worded. I was implying our current bowling was stronger than back when Smith took over.

 

[Dendarii]

And something which is complete speculation, but I do have to wonder about - is Faf in the right place mentally to be captain?

By all accounts he had a very good relationship with Gibson, and I got the feeling that there was some dissatisfaction with the decision not to carry on with him as coach. Couple that with a dismal World Cup and the retirements of long-standing teammates AB, Ama, Steyn, and Morkel (and I suppose Duminy and Tahir too), and thoughts of his retiring have got to be running through his mind. So while I don't think he'd ever do it deliberately, could all those factors be affecting both his mood and the mood of the dressing room?

So there's the question of whether he should still be captain and the obvious follow-up as to who his replacement should be. We're going to have to write this tour off as a disaster, but I do think the captaincy is something which needs to be examined in the aftermath and the planning of the way forward.

 

[Dendarii]

Sorry poorly worded. I was implying our current bowling was stronger than back when Smith took over.

No, I got that. I was just commenting that we're doing fine with the bowling at the moment, and the bowlers coming to the party so often has possibly meant that our batting weakness have been glossed over a little.

 

[StephenZA]

And something which is complete speculation, but I do have to wonder about - is Faf in the right place mentally to be captain?

By all accounts he had a very good relationship with Gibson, and I got the feeling that there was some dissatisfaction with the decision not to carry on with him as coach. Couple that with a dismal World Cup and the retirements of long-standing teammates AB, Ama, Steyn, and Morkel (and I suppose Duminy and Tahir too), and thoughts of his retiring have got to be running through his mind. So while I don't think he'd ever do it deliberately, could all those factors be affecting both his mood and the mood of the dressing room?

So there's the question of whether he should still be captain and the obvious follow-up as to who his replacement should be. We're going to have to write this tour off as a disaster, but I do think the captaincy is something which needs to be examined in the aftermath and the planning of the way forward.

Smith on commentary hinted that there was maybe behind the scene talking of Faf suggesting and discussing his replacement. I wonder if Markram was not struggling so much right now??