The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Logan]

Openers : Gavaskar and Sehwag

Middle Order : Dravid, Sachin and Kohli

Wicket Keeper : Dhoni

Bowlers : Kapil, Jadeja, Ashwin(India)/Srinath(away), Kumble and Zaheer

Bumrah would replace Srinath when gets at least 100 wickets

 

[Coronis]

I'd argue Smith > over viv as well. But not sure if you're being sarcastic but viv does average 40+ home and away vs all the teams he played (sub 40 vs NZ in 3 tests). I believe Smith has a similarly rounded record FWIW.

He does have a decently rounded record, though it is not exceptional as I’ve pointed out earlier in this thread, with only his record against England being above 50 iirc.

 

[Logan]

Ravindra Jadeja surely deserves to be in ATG Indian team.

A batting average of 34, a bowling average of 24(best for any Indian spinner) and an excellent fielder.

 

[Coronis]

Unpopular opinion mebbe but yeah Barrington should always be picked before Compton imo. Better average, same strike rate, more centuries per innings, better conversion rate, better way average (Compton only averaged 36 away!!!).

 

[h_hurricane]

Unpopular opinion mebbe but yeah Barrington should always be picked before Compton imo. Better average, same strike rate, more centuries per innings, better conversion rate, better way average (Compton only averaged 36 away!!!).

This opinion is unpopular because english cricketers are not rated by away average ! Not that I disagree with you.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Ravindra Jadeja surely deserves to be in ATG Indian team.
A batting average of 34, a bowling average of 24(best for any Indian spinner) and an excellent fielder.

Yea it's between him and Ashwin for me - solidifies the tail too, which India have traditionally been weak with, so having one of these two, plus Kapil, really helps.

Realistically, you need a separate home and away (specifically, outside subcontinent) team with India, especially with regards to the bowling options. From a batting perspective, apart from Sehwag/Dhoni, the others are just fine away from home. Maybe an argument for bringing in Laxman. The Dravid opening/Laxman at #3 idea is an interesting one but not tested enough times I suppose.

HOME
Gavaskar
Sehwag (that would have been an incredible combination)
Dravid
Sachin
Kohli
Dhoni
Jadeja
Kapil
Ashwin
Kumble
Bumrah - premature but just even talent wise (and at least producing it for a year) he's just so far ahead of every other Indian pacer, ever.


AWAY
Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Sachin
Kohli
Dhoni
Jadeja
Kapil
Srinath
Zaheer
Bumrah

Feels weird to drop Kumble away, but all we really need from the spinner away is to hold up an end, and pace is what wins away from home. With Jadeja, the overall strength he brings to the team in batting + fielding is just too hard to ignore. In bowling, away from home, albeit from a very small sample size, he averages no less than Kumble did (though Ashwin has a better average). In batting, away from home, he's done alright in the batting side of things (although only played 15 tests) - averages 30+ vs Australia, England, New Zealand and Sri Lanka.

Interesting to see if this changes in the next ~5 years - specifically if Bumrah cements his spot, and if one of the others (Shami) makes it in at the very least as a contender/option to forcing a pick of one of Srinath/Zaheer.
In batting, maybe Pujara? Hard to see who he can dislodge though - the other opener is the only other 'soft' spot and that's only away. Wouldn't ever drop Sehwag if batting at home. Have a wealth of middle order batting options - could probably field a second XI with a middle order that's pretty damn good...but there'd be a significant drop in quality everywhere else.

Completely hypothetical of course, but I think that away team is stronger than most people realise - it's the Bumrah effect (assuming he plays like he has in the past year). Srinath and Zaheer and Kapil were often asked to lead the attack - however, as bowlers to support Bumrah, I reckon they would have been fantastic (see also, Ishant Sharma and co).

 

[ataraxia]

He does have a decently rounded record, though it is not exceptional as I’ve pointed out earlier in this thread, with only his record against England being above 50 iirc.

Yeah thinking about it Viv's best against England as well so on reflection Sachin should be dropped against England IMO.

 

[ataraxia]

Home:

Gavaskar
Sehwag (perhaps 5/6 is an option for him?)
Dravid
Tendulkar
Hazare/Laxman
Mankad (surprised no one has mentioned him)
Dhoni +
Kapil
Ashwin
Kumble
Prasanna/Srinanth

Away 6-11:

Mankad
Dhoni/Engineer
Kapil
Ashwin/Kumble
Ishant?
Srinanth

Quite surprised no one has mentioned Vinoo Mankad, being a bowling all-rounder quite comfortable at no. 6. No opinion on the top 3 really, but I think there should be an opening for Sehwag's aggressive mindset, not sure if that is opening or 5/6. Unsure who should be the fourth pacer away, but I don't think Bumrah has proved himself yet. I also doubt that Jadeja should be ahead of Harbhajan and Prasanna. Kohli hasn't proved himself yet IMO, but that day will come soon.

 

[stephen]

Ganguly should be considered on away tours for his medium pace bowling. He opened the bowling for India at one point and could slot in nicely at first change behind Kapil and Bumrah, allowing India to play two spinners abroad.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Ganguly should be considered on away tours for his medium pace bowling. He opened the bowling for India at one point and could slot in nicely at first change behind Kapil and Bumrah, allowing India to play two spinners abroad.

why don't we pick robin singh while we're at it?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Ganguly should be considered on away tours for his medium pace bowling. He opened the bowling for India at one point and could slot in nicely at first change behind Kapil and Bumrah, allowing India to play two spinners abroad.

Oh god it was bad enough seeing Ganguly's bowling in international cricket and you want to put him in an ATG team for it?

 

[Logan]

Sehwag, Gavaskar, Dravid, Sachin, Kohli, Kapil and Dhoni are automatic locks as the Top 7 picks in any Indian Team.


My remaining picks

7-11(Home) : Ashwin, Jadeja, Kumble and Srinath

7-11(Away) : Ashwin, Jadeja, Srinath and Zaheer

 

[Logan]

Ganguly should never be picked in ATG Indian Test team. He was a great captain but a medicore batsman.

 

[vcs]

Shami will end up ahead of Srinath/Zaheer.

 

[srbhkshk]

Shami will end up ahead of Srinath/Zaheer.

Hopefully so would Bumrah, by the next decade we might finally have a competitive ATG team.

 

[Burgey]

Why do you get to choose a home and an away side? Isn’t the point of these blokes that they can play home and away? Otherwise they aren’t ATGs are they?

 

[Malcolm]

Ganguly should never be picked in ATG Indian Test team. He was a great captain but a medicore batsman.

IIRC Ganguly averaged 50 before he took over the captaincy. He might not get into an Indian all-time XI but he definitely was not a mediocre batsman.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Why do you get to choose a home and an away side? Isn’t the point of these blokes that they can play home and away? Otherwise they aren’t ATGs are they?

Yeah AFAIC a home track bully shouldn't be in your ATG side. Tbf though, in India's case they don't have many players that were much chop out of Asia in general so it's a bit restrictive

 

[stephen]

Ganguly has to be close to the Indian AT XI, even if he's not first choice as a batsman. He was certainly very good.

And I was advocating him as a third seamer in overseas conditions where India's choice is to pick a third seamer who had averaging 32+ or to go for a part timer.

 

[TheJediBrah]

From what I saw of him Ganguly was barely a bowler. He just bowled. He wasn't really any good at it. His bowling was barely a moderate upgrade on the pus that Matty Wade chucks down.