South Africa team selection

[MrPrez]

We have to pick one of Piedt and/or Muthusamy can't have both in the team. Which one is a coin toss to me.

Piedt is the better bowler. He had a bad game but you have to back him to come back. Whereas Muthusamy isn't good enough to be picked as a specialist bowler imo.

 

[Dendarii]

I wouldn't play Muthusamy.

But the selectors probably will. And going forward if they do pick Mulder like we're all hoping they will then he replaces Muthusamy and it's the same problem of Bavuma having to bat at 4 because Faf won't.

 

[StephenZA]

However, we all know that the majority of black players who are coming through are bowlers and there are very few batsman worth speaking of. So because Bavuma's a batsman I think they're going to be reluctant to drop him until another one comes through. Qeshile is the obvious replacement, so I think until they feel ready to pick him we're stuck with Bavuma.

Particularly at FC level, a clear case has already been made that black batsmen need to be chosen, and that quota can not just be made up of picking black bowlers. I think they have actually said you need to try pick black batsmen and bat them in their position, can't just force them to open etc. It is a headache because it is known that basic necessary skills in batsmen need to be developed earlier compared to bowlers, which is partly responsible for the current struggle to find black batsmen. Qeshile stepping up to the plate would be a fantastic, but it is also huge pressure on him considering the expectation in SA currently.

 

[MrPrez]

But the selectors probably will. And going forward if they do pick Mulder like we're all hoping they will then he replaces Muthusamy and it's the same problem of Bavuma having to bat at 4 because Faf won't.

Oh, for sure. I'm just saying my preference; I'm fully aware Muthusamy will play, and Bavuma will bat top 5.

Side note: When Mulder comes in Bavuma must lose his spot. Or Faf needs to move up to 4, Mulder to 5, and Bavuma stays at 6. But I'd much rather we try someone new in the top 5 (not de Bruyn) and drop Bavuma.

 

[StephenZA]

Piedt is the better bowler. He had a bad game but you have to back him to come back. Whereas Muthusamy isn't good enough to be picked as a specialist bowler imo.

Depends what they want and the pitch. If they want to play an 'all rounder' then I think Piedt needs to be replaced with Ngidi/Nortje. If they want a five man attack then we hope Piedt's batting stands up at 8 and we pick Ngidi/Nortje in Muthusamy's place. Else they just bring in Hamza for Muthusamy.

 

[StephenZA]

If Bavuma gets dropped it is unlikely to happen before the end of this summer, and he will probably end up batting at 4 this summer. Only way that changes is if de Bruyn scores lots of runs sooner rather than later; and they bring in Hamza at 3.

 

[MrPrez]

What are our thoughts on Markram as a bowler compared to Maharaj? How much worse is he really?

I know he's done very little bowling in FC cricket but he's got a genuinely solid OD record.

Is it possible to justify picking three pacers and Maharaj, and putting the extra spin bowling responsibility on Markram/Elgar?

Muthusamy has bowled 9 overs out of 113 (I know it's the first innings but still - Maharaj has bowled 33 overs in comparison) - surely Elgar and Markram could fill these overs?

We could then pick 3 pacers and Maharaj, with Markram and Elgar picking up additional spin bowling slack - and replace Muthusamy with Hamza.

 

[StephenZA]

Thinking that Markram is even in the same league as Maharaj is faulty?? I assume you mean Muthusamy. Muthusmay has done nothing really wrong this match and has improved from 2nd innings of the first match onwards, but yes he is not good enough on either. He probably is still better than Markram and Elgar as a bowler.

Biggest disappointment has been Maharaj, been inconsistent and not as threatening as we would like. Not terrible, but not good enough. I wonder how much getting dropped in SA in the previous series has knocked his confidence.

 

[MrPrez]

Sorry yes, meant Muthusamy.

I think Muthusamy is better, but I'm not convinced it is enough to warrant picking him rather than using the part-timers and including Hamza in the team.

He hasn't really done much wrong but that's primarily because he's had such a weird role in the team. Low bowling load, and batting down at 7.

It may be difficult to drop him considering he hasn't specifically disappointed; that said it would be the right move for the team.

 

[StephenZA]

I don't think any of us have been convinced that Muthusamy should be in the team in front of Hamza. About all we can say is that the assumption would be that Mulder would take Muthusamys place in the team during the Eng tour. And depending on de Bruyns run scoring, Hamza comes in at some stage.

 

[MrPrez]

I don't think any of us have been convinced that Muthusamy should be in the team in front of Hamza. About all we can say is that the assumption would be that Mulder would take Muthusamys place in the team during the Eng tour. And depending on de Bruyns run scoring, Hamza comes in at some stage.

Yeah, I'm more wondering whether we can drop Muthusamy and also not play Piedt - or if we need to play at least one of these two spinners.

 

[Bahseph]

Good observation in that it's more the team selection that's puzzling more so than Muthusamy himself. I absolutely expected him to bowl more. But I wouldn't go in and trust Elgar to bowl me 10 overs an innings. Markram is interesting, I think there is potential as a bowler, but more in LO games. He darts it in. Elgar gets some Test wickets because he just tosses it up and invites attacking shots imo.

 

[MrPrez]

Good observation in that it's more the team selection that's puzzling more so than Muthusamy himself. I absolutely expected him to bowl more. But I wouldn't go in and trust Elgar to bowl me 10 overs an innings. Markram is interesting, I think there is potential as a bowler, but more in LO games. He darts it in. Elgar gets some Test wickets because he just tosses it up and invites attacking shots imo.

Yeah I'm definitely more onboard the Markram train.

I don't think they should be bowling 15 overs an innings combined, but if we're going to select Muthusamy and barely bowl him, it might be a slightly more stomachable option.

 

[StephenZA]

Yeah, I'm more wondering whether we can drop Muthusamy and also not play Piedt - or if we need to play at least one of these two spinners.

Realistically we would probably have to play one of the two... whether Piedt would have resulted in a more attacking option?

 

[StephenZA]

I think we looking at this the wrong way though. Muthusamy was picked (rightly/wrongly) to bowl 15 overs first innings (or there about) and provide an extra spin option for the 3rd/4th innings. Rabada has looked much better, taken 3 wickets and looked the best bowler overall. Philander has done his job, with a bit of threat and played stock bowler keeping runs down. Unfortunately he has not taken any wickets and with Maharaj not on top of his game and Nortje debut not been as successful as we would like you have ended up with only 1 bowler of your front 4 taking wickets (until 10 min ago)? So you can't discuss Muthusamys role or whether we need the extra batsmen if your front-line 4 bowlers are not taking at least 7/8 wickets.

 

[MrPrez]

I think we looking at this the wrong way though. Muthusamy was picked (rightly/wrongly) to bowl 15 overs first innings (or there about) and provide an extra spin option for the 3rd/4th innings. Rabada has looked much better, taken 3 wickets and looked the best bowler overall. Philander has done his job, with a bit of threat and played stock bowler keeping runs down. Unfortunately he has not taken any wickets and with Maharaj not on top of his game and Nortje debut not been as successful as we would like you have ended up with only 1 bowler of your front 4 taking wickets (until 10 min ago)? So you can't discuss Muthusamys role or whether we need the extra batsmen if your front-line 4 bowlers are not taking at least 7/8 wickets.

Having a fifth bowler who isn't taking wickets makes little difference to that issue, though.

 

[StephenZA]

Hence my point, the problems right now have nothing to do with the selection of Muthusamy or not. His selection or non-selection does not change that we are unable to bowl India out with our front line bowlers. As far as batting is concerned he has not done badly. It just feels like discussing a point that is irrelevant long term, whereas SA inability to take wickets in these conditions is a real problem.

 

[Bahseph]

Would seriously like to know what the tactics are when it comes to Faf. I've been baffled from the first Test.

 

[mr_mister]

Bavuma has to go. His average is racing south toward 30 and the blokes played nearly 40 tests for a highest score of 103

 

[mr_mister]

It really is the worst sport to be a quota player in if you're below par. Individual performances across a period of time are so easily analysed with math/numbers, as opposed to rugby and soccer. Bavuma is just so not fit to bat in the top 6, the statistics don't lie - he must know it himself and probably feels terrible about it at times. Undroppable despite better bats waiting in the wings

Short term pain for long term gain I guess, I understand the reason for quotas - but I dunno how he's meant to inspire a future generation of black kids to pick up a bat if he's not scoring any runs lol