South Africa team selection

[MrPrez]

Imagine we had Mulder; we could go:

1. Elgar
2. Markram
3. Hamza
4. Faf
5. Bavuma
6. Mulder
7. de Kock
8. Philander
9. Maharaj
10. Rabada
11. Piedt/Ngidi/Nortje.

In this scenario Piedt would be my choice if he actually justifies his place as a test-level spinner, as you would still have three pacers along with your two spinners. And you would have a genuinely good top 7.

Oh well.

 

[StephenZA]

So on commentary I heard that Hamza had a 'niggle' which might explain why he was not selected for the 'A' game and this Test. It is also apparently why they added vd Dussen to the squad?

I don't expect them to drop him and he should be given the series, but I really am getting over de Bruyn. The occasional good looking shot is not enough for me to accept the all to often poor shot selection, and mentally I don't think he has it at test level. I not to sure what to do about next selection. We can not play both Piedt and Muthusamy in the team. But I did think Muthusamy looked pretty good with the bat, but also Piedt looked more threatening 2nd innings. Ideally we bring in Hamza for Muthusamy if the pitch is similar.

 

[Dendarii]

Ideally we bring in Hamza for Muthusamy if the pitch is similar.

I don't see that happening. For all our doubts about Muthusamy he was the last man standing in both innings, so he did his job as an all-rounder with the bat and I think the selectors will stick with him because of that.

 

[Bahseph]

The tactics were muddled in this match. Firstly the selection of Piedt and Muthusamy, and no Ngidi. And then the use of Rabada. Philander did exactly what we knew he would, but I think Piedt was badly exposed.

Muthusamy was selected as an allrounder and I think he was fine. Playing in Durban and PMB has made him suitable for these conditions, has low hands and a good temperament. Which brings me to de Bruyn. How often does he get out because of a shoddy shot instead of a technical weakness? Don't know what to say about Bavuma, he had to shooters.

 

[vcs]

I want to see more of Hamza. Really liked what I saw of him on debut against Pakistan, whereas De Bruyn has never really impressed me all that much.

 

[Chrish]

Surely this should be it for Bavuma ?? de Bruyn is also knocking hard on an exit door.

 

[Bahseph]

I actually believe talent wise that de Bruyn has a higher ceiling than Bavuma, but I'd pick Bavuma over him because of temperament. Slim pickings.

 

[Dendarii]

Surely this should be it for Bavuma ??

Bavuma's vice-captain for the series, so he's not going anywhere for now. He also made runs in the warm-up match, which may have earned him some credit.

 

[Chrish]

Averaging 32 after these many games tells me he is not cut out for Test cricket. It’s NOT okay; especially playing for a side like SA.

 

[SeamUp]

Full-tick : Elgar & de Kock
Half-tick : du Plessis, Muthusamy, Philander, Rabada (but only just for all of them)

The sooner we can find replacements for Bavuma and de Bruyn only then will the batting unit fully move on. We currently do not have elite world class batsman that you know will almost score runs every innings. So when the very good international batsmen don't score runs for us there is a good chance we will fail as a batting unit.

Tough decisions re : Muthusamy. He showed application but it was his sort of batting wicket. It makes me say ok, lets play him. But I really want to get de Bruyn's international future sorted as soon as possible and Zubayr needs to be playing if fit.

Also would like to see Nortje play as a skiddy quick. But it is tough on Ngidi if he plays ahead of him.

 

[StephenZA]

Bavuma is such a tough case. He has never excelled, but there has always been somebody batting worse than him in the team. He shows good temperament, scoring tough 50+'s and played well during the Pak and Aus series. But just never kicks on and seems to get out in stupid ways. It feels like Duminy all over again (with less talent). And nobody is really pushing him, de Bruyn comes into team and looks terrible. And this is all combined with an underlying quota system. We know long term he needs to go, but nobody right now is putting serious pressure on him as an obvious replacement.

Ideally by summer, Mulder and Hamza are in the team and we have one of those batting 'potentials' putting proper pressure by weight of runs on Bavuma.

 

[Bahseph]

Absolutely agree with you SeamUp. At the moment we don't have an elite batsman. I'm talking about a Smith, Williamson or Kohli, or even a Pujara imo. We do have Elgar and Faf who are proven at this level, but they have their limitations. And then there's Markram and de Kock who are absolutely talented but not elite. Atleast not yet(We hope).

I've been a Bavuma advocate, but thinking about his record it's just damn damning. One hundred. Almost four years ago? We can't outbat teams like that. Yeah if it's 200 vs 200 then he can be handy but in games like this his output decreases.

Greame Smith is really open about de Bruyn on commentary. And I do believe that if he was more involved in the team he could get more out of him. Called his shot selection out a few times, you can sense the frustration.

Muthusamy deserves another go imo. Do we think Piedt is going to be dropped?

 

[MrPrez]

I'm not a fan of Bavuma at all but you can't realistically drop him when de Bruyn is doing nothing.

Just bat him at 6 and hope he can do some work with the mid-lower order.

 

[Bahseph]

It's basically one or the other at this point. But I've resigned myself to the fact that they are both getting this series. Although StephenZA would love to see that straight swop for Mulder and Hamza! I'm with you Bud.

 

[MrPrez]

It's basically one or the other at this point. But I've resigned myself to the fact that they are both getting this series. Although StephenZA would love to see that straight swop for Mulder and Hamza! I'm with you Bud.

Yeah same.

 

[Dendarii]

I'm not a fan of Bavuma at all but you can't realistically drop him when de Bruyn is doing nothing.

Just bat him at 6 and hope he can do some work with the mid-lower order.

The problem is that there now isn't a place for Bavuma at 6 because they're playing Muthusamy, so he'll be at 7 with De Kock at 6. Pushing Bavuma down to 5 could work, but Faf seems hellbent on sticking to that spot. So there's currently nowhere left for Bavuma but 4, even though that's not the right position for him.

 

[MrPrez]

The problem is that there now isn't a place for Bavuma at 6 because they're playing Muthusamy, so he'll be at 7 with De Kock at 6. Pushing Bavuma down to 5 could work, but Faf seems hellbent on sticking to that spot. So there's currently nowhere left for Bavuma but 4, even though that's not the right position for him.

I wouldn't play Muthusamy. I know it's harsh but he hardly had an outstanding game, just slightly less garbage. But he's still not good enough.

 

[StephenZA]

Another realistic consideration is how much longer is Faf going to be around for? If you end up replacing Bavuma and de Bruyn and have Hamza and plus another batsmen just beginning their careers, would your really want to be picking another untested batsmen with inexperience to be replacing Faf or would you want at least a little time with Bavuma's experience still around? (limited as it may be). I would personally rather do that but I can see the argument against it.

 

[Dendarii]

Bavuma is such a tough case. He has never excelled, but there has always been somebody batting worse than him in the team. He shows good temperament, scoring tough 50+'s and played well during the Pak and Aus series. But just never kicks on and seems to get out in stupid ways. It feels like Duminy all over again (with less talent). And nobody is really pushing him, de Bruyn comes into team and looks terrible. And this is all combined with an underlying quota system. We know long term he needs to go, but nobody right now is putting serious pressure on him as an obvious replacement.

I think Bavuma's case goes a little deeper than just the normal quota consideration. With Rabada, Ngidi, and Phehlukwayo regulars across the various formats and Qeshile and Sipamla on the fringes of selection we've got enough black players to make up the numbers, so Bavuma could be replaced by Hamza without any worries in that regard.

However, we all know that the majority of black players who are coming through are bowlers and there are very few batsman worth speaking of. So because Bavuma's a batsman I think they're going to be reluctant to drop him until another one comes through. Qeshile is the obvious replacement, so I think until they feel ready to pick him we're stuck with Bavuma.

 

[StephenZA]

I wouldn't play Muthusamy. I know it's harsh but he hardly had an outstanding game, just slightly less garbage. But he's still not good enough.

We have to pick one of Piedt and/or Muthusamy can't have both in the team. Which one is a coin toss to me.