The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Tom Flint]

You can still easily rotate 4 seamers. If it's an atg team against a similar atg team then there is potential for 4th and 5th days where qadir ect would be better than a 5th seamer.

 

[Red]

I never said he wasn’t a good batsman. I said you’re weakening the middle order unduly if you’re having him in an ATG team with no Bradman to pick up the slack. Fact is, he’s not in the same league as other options and 5/6 in the batting order is more important than the 5th bowler.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think he's every bit as good a batsman as the other options, and would have proved so if he only needed to bowl a few overs each innings. I'm sure you'll think he didn't show this at test level so it's speculation, and you'd be right.

 

[Coronis]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think he's every bit as good a batsman as the other options, and would have proved so if he only needed to bowl a few overs each innings. I'm sure you'll think he didn't show this at test level so it's speculation, and you'd be right.

You’re kidding yourself if you think he’s on the same level as Border.

 

[AndrewB]

the best spinenners in the windies era were qadir, qasim and mallett.

It doesn't go against your main point, but Mallett's stretching it for the 1978-1992 era; he only played 3 Tests (with little success) in that time and retired from FC cricket in 1981. Doshi, Yardley, Emburey and Edmonds were probably the leading spinners early in that era (beside Qadir/Qasim).

 

[stephen]

I prefer quality of cricket over quantity, but with career strike rates of Marshall (46.7), Garner and Hadlee (both 50.8), Holding (50.9) and Imran (53.7), if you select 4 out of those 5, I doubt many teams are batting for 75 overs.

Marshall, Garner and Holding bowled together in 49 innings. In 22 of them the team bowled over 80 overs. In 8 of them they bowled over 120 overs.

 

[bagapath]

Marshall, Garner and Holding bowled together in 49 innings. In 22 of them the team bowled over 80 overs. In 8 of them they bowled over 120 overs.

so in 27 out of the 49 innings, they bowled under 80 overs. if you add two more rockers like imran and hadlee it will probably be 40 out of 49 innings when the opposition folds in two/ two and a half sessions.

 

[bagapath]

It doesn't go against your main point, but Mallett's stretching it for the 1978-1992 era; he only played 3 Tests (with little success) in that time and retired from FC cricket in 1981. Doshi, Yardley, Emburey and Edmonds were probably the leading spinners early in that era (beside Qadir/Qasim).

my bad. i had yardley in mind. lazy post.

 

[bagapath]

Anderson's average outside England is lower than Bedser's.

anderson averages 46 in srilanka. 40 in south africa. 35 in australia. quite ordinary numbers. in fact in no cricket playing nation outside of england does he average under 32 except in west indies. his UAE numbers skew his overseas stats. otherwise his non-english conditions record is pretty poor.

 

[Logan]

Anderson’s average in different countries

England : 23

West Indies : 24

NewZealand : 32

India : 33

Australia : 35

SouthAfrica : 40

SriLanka : 46



This is not a record for an all time great.

 

[stephen]

so in 27 out of the 49 innings, they bowled under 80 overs. if you add two more rockers like imran and hadlee it will probably be 40 out of 49 innings when the opposition folds in two/ two and a half sessions.

I disagree. 4 ATG quicks isn't that much better than 3. Do you really want your skipper banned every other test for poor over rates?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Anderson’s average in different countries

England : 23

West Indies : 24

NewZealand : 32

India : 33

Australia : 35

SouthAfrica : 40

SriLanka : 46



This is not a record for an all time great.

It's funny the one that surprises me most is his average in England. For some reason I expected it to be something ridiculous like 14 or 15. Guess it shows how much cricket England play at home that he has managed an overall average of under 30 despite those averages around the world.

 

[morgieb]

It's funny the one that surprises me most is his average in England. For some reason I expected it to be something ridiculous like 14 or 15. Guess it shows how much cricket England play at home that he has managed an overall average of under 30 despite those averages around the world.

It's also worth remembering just how long he's played. A lot of that comes from when he really wasn't all that special.

 

[Jack1]

Anderson improved the older he got. Whether he is past it physically or not now I'm not sure. An average of 27 in tests is no where near good enough for ATG (overall career) in test cricket. Broad's average is extremely ordinary too. Broad in particular turns up when he wants to. Anderson is more agricultural and tries his best every ball. England's best seamer that had enough longevity and didn't play in the Stone Age is Trueman. The only ATG seamer without a shadow of doubt that England have produced. Don't think I'm willing to stick my neck out for Barnes and the bowlers pre Barnes, slightly harsh but I don't think they played enough high level cricket them to judge properly. Lohmann's stats are almost impossible to ignore though I have to admit. They would probably share the next ball in an ATG English test side.

 

[ImpatientLime]

anderson averages 46 in srilanka. 40 in south africa. 35 in australia. quite ordinary numbers. in fact in no cricket playing nation outside of england does he average under 32 except in west indies. his UAE numbers skew his overseas stats. otherwise his non-english conditions record is pretty poor.

lol

if he we take out his fantastic performances in the uae which is a hard place for fast bowlers to perform then his numbers get worse

 

[Jack1]

Anyone noticed than Barrington is the opposite of Ramprakash? Barrington averaged 13 more in tests than FC cricket. Guess he only cared enough to play full tilt if he batted for England. The weirdest part about Barrington is the 76.43 average from 44 innings he had batting inside the top 3. Evidently 3 was his best position and he may have thrived as an opener too. He only averaged 41.96 at 5. 59.17 at 4 wasn't too shabby either. I wonder where he batted for Surrey. I suspect he batted middle order for Surrey to average 45.63 in FC and 58.67 from 82 tests. Interesting discrepancy. I don't remember seeing a batsman being so much better in tests than for his county. Haven't got around to reading the bio on cricinfo yet, that might teach me more about his style.

 

[mr_mister]

Eddie Paynter has a similar discrepancy.

 

[h_hurricane]

James Anderson is certainly not an ATG. Those numbers mentioned by Logan confirms that he was extremely ordinary in most countries.His longevity takes him to a "good to very good bowler" bracket though.

 

[Jack1]

Eddie Paynter has a similar discrepancy.

Good shout shame the sample size isn't a bit bigger as the discrepancy is larger.

 

[Jack1]

James Anderson is certainly not an ATG. Those numbers mentioned by Logan confirms that he was extremely ordinary in most countries.His longevity takes him to a "good to very good bowler" bracket though.

Thing is if Anderson was Indian you'd all for calling him ATG "COZ LONGEVITY MAN"

 

[h_hurricane]

Thing is if Anderson was Indian you'd all for calling him ATG "COZ LONGEVITY MAN"

This is high degree generalizing. You would not see many indians considering Kumble as an ATG.