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England players and selection discussion thread
- Thread starter Bijed
- Start date
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Yeah Denly doesn't really fit for me for the role he's being picked in. He's a top order batsman who can bowl who's being picked as a genuine allrounder who bats in the middle order. I think he's a marginally better player than Dawson but Dawson definitely fits the role better.
I ultimately question how necessary the role is though. If Moeen or Rashid got injured/dropped I don't think I'd be keen to replace one of them with another spin bowling allrounder. I don't think it's imperative that England select two spinners all the time.
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
Ya i can see that. Dawson wouldn't play unless there was an injury to Mo or Rashid and even he wouldn't be guaranteed a spot. And with a 15 man squad spaces are limited and possibly best used elsewhere.
Still they are vulnerable to short term injuries or injury on the day later in the tournament. 4 seamers and 2 spinners is their default and favoured balance. Any kind of short term injury to mo or rashid would cause issues, especially later on in the tournaments where the wickets will likely be worn.
I certainly like the team balance with the two spinners and four seamers. Gives Morgan more options without particularly weakening the batting. If Hales was still around you could maybe make a case for dropping Stokes and playing 4 seamers and a spinner in the event of an injury to a spinner. Say Roy, Bairstow, Hales, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Woakes, T Curran, Archer, Rashid, Wood. But that's gone now.
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Do we reckon Wiley will probably be the bowler to make way in the WC squad for Archer? He is the most limited and the most immediately vulnerable in my mind; barring Wood who's injuries could potentially rule him out anyway.
The problem is more complicated with the starting xi. I don't think you could say any of Curran, Plunkett or Woakes deserve to be dropped but one of them certainly has to be. Curran and Plunkett have looked fine enough and while Woakes has been in bad form recently, he has arguably been our best odi seamer since 2015 (Plunkett has also been very decent). Likelihood is that Woakes and Plunkett (and Wood if he makes it) will have to be constantly rotated in and out of the squad because of injury scares so that will at least make it a little easier. Here's how I think we should line up:
Roy
Bairstow
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Butler
Ali
Woakes
Curran
Archer
Rashid
The problem is more complicated with the starting xi. I don't think you could say any of Curran, Plunkett or Woakes deserve to be dropped but one of them certainly has to be. Curran and Plunkett have looked fine enough and while Woakes has been in bad form recently, he has arguably been our best odi seamer since 2015 (Plunkett has also been very decent). Likelihood is that Woakes and Plunkett (and Wood if he makes it) will have to be constantly rotated in and out of the squad because of injury scares so that will at least make it a little easier. Here's how I think we should line up:
Roy
Bairstow
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Butler
Ali
Woakes
Curran
Archer
Rashid
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Clearly both are ahead of Wood though.
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
A new coach should definitely help. For all the good Bayliss did with the ODI side, he has had the opposite impact with the test side.
On the player front-
Burns has shown the ability to adapt quickly and works things out. Looked very dodgy on debut against spin, basically playing it from the crease (not back nor forward). A test later he changed completely and played it mainly off the back foot with some sweeps mixed in and looked much more secure for it. Shown similar in this series where he has tightened up outside offstump, and dealt better with short ball in this past game. Still averages less than 30 though but given other inadequacies in the top order should get longer in the side. Don't give him the captaincy though yet
Roy should be dropped. Shouldn't really have been selected in the first place. Team already have a surplus of flaky attacking bats.
Buttler has done ok since recall. Averages more than Root in that timeframe. Still doesn't convince. Just never really has cracked first class cricket. They'd be better suited to giving Pope a run at 6 come the winter imo. Maybe Buttler should be competing with Bairstow and Foakes to bat 7 and keep wicket.
Bairstow I don't like particularly. I think he's self serving. Averages 29 since the start of 2017 which is bad so can't compain if he was dropped (although I'm sure he will). That being said I rather think that with a new coach (and maybe captain) in his ear he can still be a good asset for England as a wk bat at 7 (or maybe 6). I think he is my preferred option as keeper still. Can't bat higher than 6.
I'd be looking for something like this for NZ - Burns, Crawley, Cook, Root, Stokes, Pope, Bairstow, Archer, Leach, Broad, Anderson
I don't realistically see Cook coming back but if I was the new coach I'd consider seeing what he was feeling and whether he wanted to come back. Otherwise maybe Denly, maybe Sibley, maybe someone else at 3.
On the player front-
Burns has shown the ability to adapt quickly and works things out. Looked very dodgy on debut against spin, basically playing it from the crease (not back nor forward). A test later he changed completely and played it mainly off the back foot with some sweeps mixed in and looked much more secure for it. Shown similar in this series where he has tightened up outside offstump, and dealt better with short ball in this past game. Still averages less than 30 though but given other inadequacies in the top order should get longer in the side. Don't give him the captaincy though yet
Roy should be dropped. Shouldn't really have been selected in the first place. Team already have a surplus of flaky attacking bats.
Buttler has done ok since recall. Averages more than Root in that timeframe. Still doesn't convince. Just never really has cracked first class cricket. They'd be better suited to giving Pope a run at 6 come the winter imo. Maybe Buttler should be competing with Bairstow and Foakes to bat 7 and keep wicket.
Bairstow I don't like particularly. I think he's self serving. Averages 29 since the start of 2017 which is bad so can't compain if he was dropped (although I'm sure he will). That being said I rather think that with a new coach (and maybe captain) in his ear he can still be a good asset for England as a wk bat at 7 (or maybe 6). I think he is my preferred option as keeper still. Can't bat higher than 6.
I'd be looking for something like this for NZ - Burns, Crawley, Cook, Root, Stokes, Pope, Bairstow, Archer, Leach, Broad, Anderson
I don't realistically see Cook coming back but if I was the new coach I'd consider seeing what he was feeling and whether he wanted to come back. Otherwise maybe Denly, maybe Sibley, maybe someone else at 3.
Father Time
School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Unbelievably England have gone for an unchanged squad for the Oval.
Agree with all of that but yeah Cook is not coming back. So I guess Sibley at 3 or maybe Northeast although he has never really batted there as far as I know so not ideal, would not even rule out Ballance. We could do with Archer showing something with the bat though because otherwise it is the longest tail we had in years.
SeamUp
International Coach
Jimmy Anderson says he feels like he can play till 40.
Some of the Lions could easily be in the main squad. But assuming they play it safe.
Winter squads.
Burns, Denly, Ballance, Root, Pope
Bairstow, Buttler
Stokes, S.Curran
Moeen, Leach
Anderson, Broad, Archer, Woakes, Stone/Wood
Lions
Sibley, Bracey, Crawley, Hain, Northeast, Banton, ANother
Foakes
Bess, Virdi/Parkinson
C. Overton, J. Overton, Porter, Mahmood, Gregory, Brookes
Some of the Lions could easily be in the main squad. But assuming they play it safe.
Winter squads.
Burns, Denly, Ballance, Root, Pope
Bairstow, Buttler
Stokes, S.Curran
Moeen, Leach
Anderson, Broad, Archer, Woakes, Stone/Wood
Lions
Sibley, Bracey, Crawley, Hain, Northeast, Banton, ANother
Foakes
Bess, Virdi/Parkinson
C. Overton, J. Overton, Porter, Mahmood, Gregory, Brookes
the big bambino
International Captain
I read somewhere, can't recall the source, that Wood wont be back until the SA tour in the new year.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't play Tests again.
Gremlin
U19 Vice-Captain
Probably the best solution for him in the long run. Become a very effective ODI strike bowler and look after the body.
the big bambino
International Captain
^^That's a fair point. Considering England have Archer now and can't ever really trust Wood over the duration of a test let alone a series.
GoodAreasShane
Cricketer Of The Year
If they want another genuine fastman to back up Archer, I would probably prefer the other Overton over Wood
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Apropos of our openers continuing two-bobness, I don't know if any CWers who follow the CC more closely than me are familiar with Hassan Azad?
I saw this on the BBC's website about him being only the second player (after Labiaexchange) to reach 1000 CC runs.
Only Div 2, but he is an opener and, perhaps interestingly for his future England prospects he's faced 2535 balls for 1053 runs & only 19 dismissals, so looks to have a old school opener's MO.
Also interestingly he doesn't appear to have played any List A or T20 games, so his technique is hopefully unsullied by the shorter formats.
I saw this on the BBC's website about him being only the second player (after Labiaexchange) to reach 1000 CC runs.
Only Div 2, but he is an opener and, perhaps interestingly for his future England prospects he's faced 2535 balls for 1053 runs & only 19 dismissals, so looks to have a old school opener's MO.
Also interestingly he doesn't appear to have played any List A or T20 games, so his technique is hopefully unsullied by the shorter formats.