4th Test at Old Trafford, Manchester

[GIMH]

You’re assuming Smith 1 wouldn’t have batted and made 160, concussed or not.

Yes, my assumption is that without the sub available your team management would not have let Smith bat in those circumstances

 

[Lillian Thomson]

This reminds me of something the great Fred Trueman once said on Test Match Special. "If things didn't happen the way they did, the match might have been different."

 

[Burgey]

Terrible assumption. Team first if there’s no sub. Of course he bats.

 

[zaremba]

Correct, largely because of the 2 games Smith missed. That's the point you're still missing.

Smith isn't concussed, Aus are almost certainly 2-0 up going into this game, probably 3-0.

"Almost certainly"? Nah. If Smith isn't concussed, Lasagne doesn't come in and score 59, 74 and 80 in those games (nor, perhaps, the 67 he made here.)

We could equally say, but with a rather straighter face, that if Anderson hadn't broken down at the start of the 1st Test we win that game and it's all different from then on.

 

[hazsa19]

Lol they conceded 360 over five sessions in the best batting conditions of the series and lost by one wicket owing to a miracle knock. If england had bowled that tight here, they’d still be in with a shot in this test instead of hoping it rains for a day and a half to save it

Lol yeh it was an absolute road wasn’t it, only explanation.

 

[Burgey]

Lol yeh it was an absolute road wasn’t it, only explanation.

Ordinarily I would explain this to you but you’ve shown you’re a bit simple for a while so there’s no point. If you think taking five sessions to grind out 360 odd over days three and four to win a test in the best conditions anyone had all series is a sign of ill disciplined bowling then you don’t know your arse from your elbow.

 

[zaremba]

Terrible assumption. Team first if there’s no sub. Of course he bats.

Do you reckon?

He had tests the next morning, which he failed: groggy, headaches, dizzy. The Dr would've had to tell management that he wasn't fit. And then, surely, the management couldn't let him bat. I just don't think "team first" cuts it post-2014.

 

[GIMH]

Terrible assumption. Team first if there’s no sub. Of course he bats.

Surely you'd hope not

 

[Daemon]

According to my spreadsheet, if Anderson wasn’t injured he’d have taken 16 wickets @ 3.4 under the clouds but 1 @ 600 under the sun. Without the concussion Smith would have scored 305 in the second test but banned for life due to seeking DRS assistance from the dressing room.

 

[Burgey]

Surely you'd hope not

Oh for sure, but I’m extrapolating back to pre-concussion testing days. Though I remember Langer being barred from batting in SA when Ntini clocked him one time

 

[Burgey]

How good did Graeme Hick make batting look when he was on song? Effortless power. Had forgotten that 80 he made back at the Gabba against Warne and McDermott in the fourth dig. Just a quality knock.

And poor old Gatt finishing with an average in the mid 30s. Was a better player than that imo

 

[Gob]

According to my spreadsheet, if Anderson wasn’t injured he’d have taken 16 wickets @ 3.4 under the clouds but 1 @ 600 under the sun. Without the concussion Smith would have scored 305 in the second test but banned for life due to seeking DRS assistance from the dressing room.

Shut up

 

[quincywagstaff]

And poor old Gatt finishing with an average in the mid 30s. Was a better player than that imo

England kept picking him too much when past his prime in the 90s (similar with Emburery); McDermott looked like taking his wicket every ball that series.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah he was awesome that series. This was the match where they’d told McGrath if he was going to succeed he needed to bowl outswing, so he tried to do that and took about 1/150 for the test and got dropped. Never did it again.

In contrast to Gatting, Gooch just got better with age. What a player he was.

 

[Groundking]

Yeah it’s a tough one, that. Has he done much skippering before? But you need Root the batsman back more than you need Root the skipper.

He skippers for Surrey.

 

[aussie tragic]

1:30 pm start. Tea at 4:20 according to cricinfo. 78 overs to be bowled before 7:30 pm

 

[aussie tragic]

Wow, that's 6 hours play with only a 20 minute break in the middle. Marsh would have come in handy as 5th bowler, but I guess LabuWarne will do with the odd over from Smithy.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Wow, that's 6 hours play with only a 20 minute break in the middle. Marsh would have come in handy as 5th bowler, but I guess LabuWarne will do with the odd over from Smithy.

You think Manchester will stay dry that long.

 

[wpdavid]

And poor old Gatt finishing with an average in the mid 30s. Was a better player than that imo

Gatting never recovered from losing the captaincy after the hotel incident in 1988. It was a shame, as he wasn't the worst captain and his batting had really picked up during the period from 1984/5 until then. But thereafter he was never the same batsman again. And as someone else said, it didn't help that he was picked when past his peak in circa 1993 to 1995.

 

[Burgey]

Gatting never recovered from losing the captaincy after the hotel incident in 1988. It was a shame, as he wasn't the worst captain and his batting had really picked up during the period from 1984/5 until then. But thereafter he was never the same batsman again. And as someone else said, it didn't help that he was picked when past his peak in circa 1993 to 1995.

Yeah i rated him. I know Australia 86/87 weren’t a good side, but they started that series as favourites. He led England brilliantly that summer out here. They cleaned up everything and his own form was awesome.