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4th Test at Old Trafford, Manchester

Burgey

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Losing Anderson from the 2nd Test onwards is a blow, but to lose him 4 overs into the 1st was really massive. Left us depleted and you just can't say what course that game would have taken if he'd been there (or if we'd had another bowler playing in place of him).

Agree about the batting/bowling balance. Pretty well illustrated by the two teams' opening partnerships in this series:

Brum
2
22
13
19

Lord's
0
11
9
13

Leeds
12
10
10
15

Swamp
1
10

Total: 156, av 10.43, highest 22
That’s just embarrassing isn’t it? Shows how bad Warner has been. I mean, at least the other three openers are all newbies who can be excused to some extent, but Warner has been diabolical. Certainly decent plans well executed, but he’s barely given a yelp. Woeful performance from an otherwise proven player.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Batsman getting hit can happen. But I think Lord's took too much of an unnatural course due to the weather to give either team much of an edge. England didn't save it until the last day and then having done so could have a slog and put Australia under pressure for half a day.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
That’s just embarrassing isn’t it? Shows how bad Warner has been. I mean, at least the other three openers are all newbies who can be excused to some extent, but Warner has been diabolical. Certainly decent plans well executed, but he’s barely given a yelp. Woeful performance from an otherwise proven player.
Yes, he's been arse. They all have, other than Burns at times, riding his luck as an opener's entitled to do.
 

Burgey

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So, you only won first test as Anderson got injured. That near session we lost on day 5 at Lord's cost us the win.
Rubbish for the reasons already stated. And the first test was a pizzling by 200 plus runs while England has a five man attack. The argument England wins if Anderson stays fit would certainly have more credence if they carried only four bowlers but they don’t. England got away with a draw at Lord’s as much for Australia missing Smith’s fielding at slip to Lyon as they did his batting.
 

Burgey

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Yes, he's been arse. They all have, other than Burns at times, riding his luck as an opener's entitled to do.
Indeed. He has an awkward technique and set up so cops extra stock for that, but he applies himself and has a good temperament. If I was england, regardless of the result of this series from here, I would stick with him over the winter tour and let him try to establish himself. Like the cut of his job.
 

flibbertyjibber

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Indeed. He has an awkward technique and set up so cops extra stock for that, but he applies himself and has a good temperament. If I was england, regardless of the result of this series from here, I would stick with him over the winter tour and let him try to establish himself. Like the cut of his job.
Think we will certainly stick with him, might end up lumbering him with the captaincy sooner rather than later depending on how this series finishes.
 

Burgey

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Nah that doesn’t fit the blinkered narrative. Neither does the fact that their ‘disciplined’ attack conceded 360 to lose in the 4th innings.
Lol they conceded 360 over five sessions in the best batting conditions of the series and lost by one wicket owing to a miracle knock. If england had bowled that tight here, they’d still be in with a shot in this test instead of hoping it rains for a day and a half to save it
 

Burgey

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Think we will certainly stick with him, might end up lumbering him with the captaincy sooner rather than later depending on how this series finishes.
Yeah it’s a tough one, that. Has he done much skippering before? But you need Root the batsman back more than you need Root the skipper.
 

TheJediBrah

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Interesting take.
No, Burgey's claim that Aus have had the worse of the conditions (I'm not commenting on whether it's correct or not) is largely based on the less predictable factors such as batting conditions getting much easier when the sun's been out, and general changing of pitch conditions due to several factors. Completely independent of the toss.

We'd have won at Lord's if the weather hadn't caused us to lose so much time. You got lucky there.
you having a laugh?
4-0 or 5-0 is a flogging, 2-1 not quite so much, if that is indeed the case.
You're missing the point. The scoreline isn't the only indicator of a flogging.

2013 Ashes (3-0) was arguably a tighter series than 2015 (3-2), despite the scorelines
 

Burgey

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94-95 Gabba highlights on here. Is Craig McDermott the most forgettable really good fast bowler ever? Took nearly 300 wickets but landed right between Lillee and McGrath and wasn’t quite as good as either
 

Woodster

International Captain
You're missing the point. The scoreline isn't the only indicator of a flogging.

2013 Ashes (3-0) was arguably a tighter series than 2015 (3-2), despite the scorelines
I do appreciate that can happen, I still disagree (despite getting the point!) that it will have been a flogging. These are two bang average batting sides, and while yes I do think Australia have been marginally the better side on the whole thanks in the main to Smith, there really isn't a huge difference and to this point no flogging has been dished out.
 

TheJediBrah

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I do appreciate that can happen, I still disagree (despite getting the point!) that it will have been a flogging. These are two bang average batting sides, and while yes I do think Australia have been marginally the better side on the whole thanks in the main to Smith, there really isn't a huge difference and to this point no flogging has been dished out.
Correct, largely because of the 2 games Smith missed. That's the point you're still missing.

Smith isn't concussed, Aus are almost certainly 2-0 up going into this game, probably 3-0.
 

Burgey

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Captained Surrey to title last season.
Ideally I suppose you’d want him to properly establish himself before he gets the gig. Could give it to Stokes but it’s a big load to carry, being allrounder and skipper. Particularly when you’re only a couple of vodkas away from belting someone at a post game bender.

These sides both have a captaincy conundrum. Hard to know who might be leading both in a year’s time
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
They’re still going to cop a flogging, it’s just instead of 4-0 or 5-0 it’ll be 2-1 or 3-1 owing to weather and the concussion rule.
The concussion rule is the only reason you didn't lose at Lord's. Without Smith 2 in the second innings we'd have waltzed home.
 

Burgey

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I can't see it being taken off Root in the near future, despite how bad he's been
Root’s issues with captaincy aren’t dissimilar to Paine’s imo. They’re both under pressure because of the weakness in the batting, and when there under pressure theh sometimes do desperate/ stupid things. Paine with the reviews all series and Root not sticking to basic plans and trying to be too funky.
 

Burgey

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The concussion rule is the only reason you didn't lose at Lord's. Without Smith 2 in the second innings we'd have waltzed home.
You’re assuming Smith 1 wouldn’t have batted and made 160, concussed or not.
 

Woodster

International Captain
Correct, largely because of the 2 games Smith missed. That's the point you're still missing.

Smith isn't concussed, Aus are almost certainly 2-0 up going into this game, probably 3-0.
No, again I understand Smith missed a Test, and our Premier bowler has missed the series, hope you understand this point.
 

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