The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[stephen]

That Australian home series had decks tailor made for Philander. Total green top in Hobart and a deck with a fair bit in it at the WACA. Even Adelaide had a decent amount of air movement which made Khawaja's innings even more special.

 

[Chrish]

Yup that was an incredible effort from Khawaja. Pretty special knock.

 

[akilana]

That Australian home series had decks tailor made for Philander. Total green top in Hobart and a deck with a fair bit in it at the WACA. Even Adelaide had a decent amount of air movement which made Khawaja's innings even more special.

Was it his knock in the dead rubber? If so, it’s hardly special to score runs after your team already lost the series.
The pitches were tailor made for hazzlewood and co and they should have been able to exploit the conditions better. SA had an average batting line up especially without AB.

In the return series in SA, Australian attack was found wanting. SA’s attack was easily better in both those series. But currently with Steyn and Philander gone, Australia probably has a better attack.

 

[thierry henry]

You can't just call guys with test averages in the low 20s "decent" or "they have potential" just cos you feel like it and it suits your argument.

 

[Chrish]

Was it his knock in the dead rubber? If so, it’s hardly special to score runs after your team already lost the series.
The pitches were tailor made for hazzlewood and co and they should have been able to exploit the conditions better. SA had an average batting line up especially without AB.

In the return series in SA, Australian attack was found wanting. SA’s attack was easily better in both those series. But currently with Steyn and Philander gone, Australia probably has a better attack.

Khawaja scored 97 and 60 something in first two games where conditions were pretty difficult. Not high scores but he was easily better than anyone else from the team.

 

[akilana]

Khawaja scored 97 and 60 something in first two games where conditions were pretty difficult. Not high scores but he was easily better than anyone else from the team.

Ok. Can’t remember much from the series except some posters here complaining about the pitches being tailor made for philander after Abbott destroyed Australia.

 

[TheJediBrah]

You can't just call guys with test averages in the low 20s "decent" or "they have potential" just cos you feel like it and it suits your argument.

you're not making any sense. It doesn't have anything to do with "my argument". I didn't even have an argument.

 

[stephen]

Ok. Can’t remember much from the series except some posters here complaining about the pitches being tailor made for philander after Abbott destroyed Australia.

Philander took 9 first innings wickets in the first two tests. They were the important wickets in that series. Rabada and Abbott were capable sport acts but Philander was who won the tests with the ball.

 

[a massive zebra]

you're not making any sense. It doesn't have anything to do with "my argument". I didn't even have an argument.

Your argument was the extremely questionable assertion that South Africa did not have an ATG attack.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Your argument was the extremely questionable assertion that South Africa did not have an ATG attack.

Hardly questionable at all. Throw uninjured and in-form Steyn in there and it might be something approaching an "ATG attack".

 

[Slifer]

Excuse me to all , but in 2013-14 Steve Smith averaged something like 67 vs an ATG of Philander, Steyn and Morkel in South Africa. This notion that he's never done it vs a great RSA attack is therefore absurd. By way of comparison, neither sachin or Lara ever averaged much more than 40 in series featuring WW or Donald/Pollock. Sachin never averaged much more than 50 in a series featuring McGrath.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Saying Morkel is only average is nonsense imo

 

[TheJediBrah]

Excuse me to all , but in 2013-14 Steve Smith averaged something like 67 vs an ATG of Philander, Steyn and Morkel in South Africa. This notion that he's never done it vs a great RSA attack is therefore absurd. By way of comparison, neither sachin or Lara ever averaged much more than 40 in series featuring WW or Donald/Pollock. Sachin never averaged much more than 50 in a series featuring McGrath.

Over his career Smith has been much worse against SA than most teams though, and it's not purely because they had a strong attack. Didn't he get out twice to Dean Elgar? lol

 

[a massive zebra]

Saying Morkel is only average is nonsense imo

Most of TJBs posts are nonsense tbh.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Most of TJBs posts are nonsense tbh.

Your face is nonsense

Morkel is overrated af

 

[Chrish]

I already mentioned that he did well against RSA only in his first series in other thread. But overall his record against them leaves much to be desired.

It’s not about averages. He averaged 40 in that home tour against them but still pretty much failed as far as I am concerned.

Tendulkar averaged in 30s against them before his last tour iirc. Still he played couple of memorable knocks against Donald and co. And that’s all I am asking. One or two memorable knocks would have satisfied that for me: like Kohli’s recent 153 for example.

I don’t think I am being selective or asking for too much. Smith overall hasn’t done that well against them even during his peak. And it’s not like there isn’t enough sample size.

To me what this translates into is if I am selecting hypothetical all time Aus XI vs teams like RSA or WI, I would probably go with Ponting instead of Smith. Ponting went well against quality pace attacks; while there is still question mark against Smith; IMO of course.

 

[Flem274*]

You can't just call guys with test averages in the low 20s "decent" or "they have potential" just cos you feel like it and it suits your argument.

you're talking to the australian equivalent of a cantabrian rugby fan.

 

[trundler]

Ffs, are we still entertaining the rubbish that he has a 'weakness' against quality pace? Edgbaston should've buried that laughable notion. Sure you'll find a disparity with a microscope. Sobers averaged 23 Vs NZ. Smith was drained in that series Vs SA last year.

 

[morgieb]

Ffs, are we still entertaining the rubbish that he has a 'weakness' against quality pace? Edgbaston should've buried that laughable notion. Sure you'll find a disparity with a microscope. Sobers averaged 23 Vs NZ. Smith was drained in that series Vs SA last year.

Yeah and that South Africa home series his one potentially big innings was nipped in the bud by the rest of the batsmen being hopeless. Doesn't also help him getting sawn off (well sort of) in one innings too.

 

[trundler]

It's ****ing stupid. No one else bar Sobers and Braddles come close to his conversation rate. No one. He has more hundreds than Richards and Hammond already ffs. And he's comfortably second fastest to however many he has. Just watch him bat ffs. It's unlike anything else. Calling him less than a legendary player of pace is Facebook comments level analysis. He's completely neutralised Broad and Archer. When you're all as old as Burgey you'd look back at this like Hughes's century Vs WI. Not saying he's definitely the 2nd greatest ever as I do think Tendulkar's overall average undersells him because of how long he played. But still, Smith has one upped most great batsmen in a way. He doesn't go missing, he wins matches singlehandedly, he butchers all kinds of bowling (insert left arm spin meme), he's done well almost everywhere, plays the situation exceptionally well and so on. He's imperfect, sure but he's almost half as far ahead of the rest as Bradman was to Hammond.