The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Chrish]

Well I stated what is my opinion. Feel free to disagree or counter it with logical argument.

Using “ffs” or “stupid” in every other sentence doesn’t help your case though. That’s probably worse than Facebook comment section.

 

[stephen]

I think people try and come up with scenarios in which Smith will fail entirely with the hope that we'll see him face that situation and score a double hundred against it.

Like the "Archer has the wood on Smith" meme.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I already mentioned that he did well against RSA only in his first series in other thread. But overall his record against them leaves much to be desired.

It’s not about averages. He averaged 40 in that home tour against them but still pretty much failed as far as I am concerned.

Tendulkar averaged in 30s against them before his last tour iirc. Still he played couple of memorable knocks against Donald and co. And that’s all I am asking. One or two memorable knocks would have satisfied that for me: like Kohli’s recent 153 for example.

I don’t think I am being selective or asking for too much. Smith overall hasn’t done that well against them even during his peak. And it’s not like there isn’t enough sample size.

To me what this translates into is if I am selecting hypothetical all time Aus XI vs teams like RSA or WI, I would probably go with Ponting instead of Smith. Ponting went well against quality pace attacks; while there is still question mark against Smith; IMO of course.

Smith's ton in the 2014 series in SA was a superb knock. Wasn't as good as Smarsh's knock in the same match but it was still really really good.

 

[trundler]

Well I stated what is my opinion. Feel free to disagree or counter it with logical argument.

Using “ffs” or “stupid” in every other sentence doesn’t help your case though. That’s probably worse than Facebook comment section.

Calling out stupidity doesn't make a well-argued point less valid. Cribbing about it without countering the reasoning is cowardly though.

 

[Chrish]

Smith's ton in the 2014 series in SA was a superb knock. Wasn't as good as Smarsh's knock in the same match but it was still really really good.

Using TJB logic, it wouldn’t count since he batted at 6 instead of 4

 

[trundler]

TJB logic is an oxymoron.

 

[NUFAN]

Sachin has definitely fallen out of any ATG XI now IMO. I just want a guy at 4 who has the ability and skill to hit hundreds at a better rate compared to Tendy.

1 Hobbs
2 Gavaskar
3 Bradman
4 Smith
5 Sobers
6 Imran
7 Gilchrist
8 Wasim
9 Marshall
10 Warne
11 Muralitharan

 

[NUFAN]

2nd XI

1 Hutton
2 Sutcliffe
3 Headley
4 Lara
5 Pollock
6 Miller
7 Knott
8 Steyn
9 O'Reilly
10 Ambrose
11 McGrath

 

[TheJediBrah]

Using TJB logic, it wouldn’t count since he batted at 6 instead of 4

How is that related to anything I've said at all? All I've done is quoted the stats of his against SA, in fact I specifically said the opposite of what you're implying that my "logic" says, ie. that his poorer record against SA was mostly just a matter of circumstance

ffs don't be stupid

 

[kyear2]

So stupid question.

Just from reading the threads (ATG & 80's All Rounders) since I rejoined. And I will phrase as carefully as possible. It appears that quite a few posters have stated that they believe Marshall, McGrath and Steyn are the 3 best fast bowlers and could joint Warne in a hypothetical ATG attack.

But just as much would drop McGrath for Hadlee. How much does one really loose with a batting lineup of Marshall, Warne, Steyn and McGrath? Not arguing one position or thebither, just asking.

I too right now have 3 open slots on my ATG side.

Viv (who I rank 3rd all time as a batsman) or Kallis who can be the 5th bowler ahead if Sobers and is a better slip fielder than VIv and also provides a calming influence between the Carnage of Sobers and Gilchrist.
And Steyn and McGrath or Hadlee (for batting) and /or Akram (variety / footmarks)

 

[h_hurricane]

I think Hadlee over Mcgrath is a no brainer for me. You lose literally nothing in bowling while also gaining a lot in batting. I would also go with Imran over Mcgrath, While knowing that Mcgrath was clearly the better bowler, Imran is still an ATG bowler and only a moderate downgrade as a bowler. Getting greedy with #batdeep.

Admittedly with Bradman in the team, the chances of getting bowled out in a test match for a lower score than opposition is way too less, but on the odd occasions when the team is inserted in a green track or a rank turner, I would need to cushion my team with as much batting as possible to be absolutely safe while also losing only a tiny bit in the bowling.

So my bowling line up would be Marshall and Hadlee opening the bowling with Imran and Warne to followup. Sobers to fill in as 5th bowler only to the extent of 10 overs a day.

 

[Red]

Hadlee, Marshall and Wasim were all pretty decent with the bat as tailenders.


I'd still find a spot for McGrath though. McGrath and Marshall are the two quicks I would always want in my team, the rest is open to negotiation.

 

[Coronis]

McGrath and Marshall are the two quicks I would always want in my team, the rest is open to negotiation.

This

 

[h_hurricane]

Sachin has definitely fallen out of any ATG XI now IMO. I just want a guy at 4 who has the ability and skill to hit hundreds at a better rate compared to Tendy.

1 Hobbs
2 Gavaskar
3 Bradman
4 Smith
5 Sobers
6 Imran
7 Gilchrist
8 Wasim
9 Marshall
10 Warne
11 Muralitharan

Interesting see that Sachin has 30 hundreds in first 100 tests (averaging one every 5.3 innings) and only 21 in the next 100 tests(averaging one every 8 innings). He did not score any hundreds in his last 40 innings Should have retired around 2011 when he was still decent. Carried on too long in pursuit of 100 hundreds and 200 tests. The decline in his numbers should be rightly held against him imo.

Having said that, he still averages more hundreds per innings than Lara and Richards while also playing way too much. Better than Lara for me, while Richards is a tiny bit better than Tendulkar due to the intangibles.

 

[Victor Ian]

There is no blight on him. You say it would have been nice to retire with his record at 2011. Well he did achieve that, and then played on being better than the next 4 best Indian batsmen that he also got all those other records so far ahead of the next best. Win win for Tendulkar.

 

[Logan]

My automatic picks are Marshall, Steyn and Murali. Marshall played in the era of giants of fast bowling and emerged as the best. Steyn played in the worst time period for fast bowlers and emerged as the greatest wicket taker of all time.


I would pick Murali over Warne any day. He ran through line ups like a hot knife through butter.

My third fast bowling pick is between Hadlee and McGrath. McGrath played for the GOAT team and bowled in an ATG bowling lineup. Hadlee was a one man army. I would choose Hadlee. No bowler apart from Murali had a bigger impact on his team than Hadlee. And was decent with the bat as well.

Sachin is an automatic pick. He averaged 40+ against every opponent and 40+ in every country he played. To do it over 200 Tests is unreal.

 

[Victor Ian]

When picking a team do you want you 3 best quick, or your 2 best quick and your 1st best 3rd quick?

Most of these ATG bowlers open the bowling and take the new ball. Which ones would do best being relegated?

 

[srbhkshk]

When picking a team do you want you 3 best quick, or your 2 best quick and your 1st best 3rd quick?

Most of these ATG bowlers open the bowling and take the new ball. Which ones would do best being relegated?

The Pakistani troika.

 

[stephen]

When picking a team do you want you 3 best quick, or your 2 best quick and your 1st best 3rd quick?

Most of these ATG bowlers open the bowling and take the new ball. Which ones would do best being relegated?

Garner
Davidson
Cummins*

Obviously assuming he continues his current form.

 

[Bolo]

The Pakistani troika.

Plus steyn when you are talking about reverse (ie. old ball bowling). But there are also the overs before it starts reversing to think about. You want one of the guys with a few different arrows in his quiver for this. Both seam and swing, because you dont know which one will work with a slightly older ball. Marshall, Akram or Hadlee of the names we have been seeing recently.