RossTaylorsBox
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Had a big cry because he couldn't review.
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2nd Semi Final - Australia v England
- Thread starter James
- Start date
TheJediBrah
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In hindsight Burgey's ban was a real kindness
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Let's talk about Lyon.
He's a good 5th bowling option. Basically all he can do is keep the runs down. He has no real ability to take wickets at ODI level. Zampa being terrible from the start of the tournament really hurt our team balance but he really should have been persisted with because he actually had the ability to take wickets.
The biggest problem with playing a guy who can't take wickets is that it puts too much pressure on the other three bowlers to take the wickets.
And speaking of the other 3, Cummins stopped taking wickets when he was used as first change. He's a new ball bowler and if he's not being used as that he's wasted. He's a perfect foil for Starc at the top because his MO is so different from Starc. Contrast that with Behrendorff who is basically a slower Starc who can't bowl at the death and offers nothing with the bat. When the ball doesn't swing (as was the case last night) he's complete canon fodder.
We desperately missed Hazelwood/Richardson as the third seamer and Hazelwood's exclusion should count against Langer and his rubbish theories.
Now even with better selection Australia probably wouldn't have won, the issues are more systemic than that. But there are some serious problems in the ODI team right now that were papered over by the performance of Finch, Warner, Carey and Starc.
He's a good 5th bowling option. Basically all he can do is keep the runs down. He has no real ability to take wickets at ODI level. Zampa being terrible from the start of the tournament really hurt our team balance but he really should have been persisted with because he actually had the ability to take wickets.
The biggest problem with playing a guy who can't take wickets is that it puts too much pressure on the other three bowlers to take the wickets.
And speaking of the other 3, Cummins stopped taking wickets when he was used as first change. He's a new ball bowler and if he's not being used as that he's wasted. He's a perfect foil for Starc at the top because his MO is so different from Starc. Contrast that with Behrendorff who is basically a slower Starc who can't bowl at the death and offers nothing with the bat. When the ball doesn't swing (as was the case last night) he's complete canon fodder.
We desperately missed Hazelwood/Richardson as the third seamer and Hazelwood's exclusion should count against Langer and his rubbish theories.
Now even with better selection Australia probably wouldn't have won, the issues are more systemic than that. But there are some serious problems in the ODI team right now that were papered over by the performance of Finch, Warner, Carey and Starc.
morgieb
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Yeah neither of them are the answer. Problem is, who is? I'd honestly be tempted to just pick 4 quicks and use our part-timers as spinners.
Spikey
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Carey's position should absolutely be able to be at number 5 and it had nothing but a positive impact last night, although I still have doubts long term. We had nothing in the sheds cause Stoinis was in the team.
If Australia's keeper was someone who actually deserved to bat at 5/6 instead of being pigeonholed into either opening or batting at 7, it gives the team much more flexibility with their choice of all-rounder at 7, instead of being forced to pick batting all-rounder ones like Stoinis and Maxwell
If Australia's keeper was someone who actually deserved to bat at 5/6 instead of being pigeonholed into either opening or batting at 7, it gives the team much more flexibility with their choice of all-rounder at 7, instead of being forced to pick batting all-rounder ones like Stoinis and Maxwell
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flibbertyjibber
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When you consider why the team were in that position in the first place then lay blame on Warner, Smith and Lehmann.
stephen
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This. Stoinis should have batted ahead of Carey. The situation was tailor made for a 20(45) from him. And if he can't do that, and we all know Maxwell won't do that, them they shouldn't be in the side.
For all the rubbishing of Khawaja his absence was sorely noted last night. His ability to bat through the difficult period and rebuild would have been most helpful. Handscomb should never be allowed in national colours again.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think Agar would be our best spin option at the moment. Carey could bat 6, Agar 7 and then 4 quicks.
jimmy101
Cricketer Of The Year
Agar doesn't even really bowl much anymore from what I've read.
the big bambino
International Captain
A proper bollocking and congratulations to England. They really have the feel of a team that's successfully met a crisis and will go on to win the cup. I like their bowling options and Plunkett coming back in seems to have covered any remaining avenue opposition teams may have spied for easy runs. So bat deep is matched by bowl deep and they don't rely on one or two men always producing as Australia and India have in this tournament. For Australia I thought the injury to Khawaja would be decisive. We've relied on a solid top 4 to bat through an innings and achieve reasonable to big scores. Missing him meant relying on a wobbly middle order lacking technique and class. It also highlighted another weakness of our team which was the lack of bowling depth. If we had Khawaja I would have picked NCN to play over Stoinis, who is just a dud. That 146 he scored has been to the ongoing detriment to the team imo. We should have Haze in the side after Richardson was injured as well. I think Maxie is done, Stoinis should go and Handscomb is finished.
As for the final England are meeting a side that is also reliant on a few players to bring the runs. NZ will need a runs from men who failed so far to compliment LRPL and Kane, or compensate if either or both fail. I think England will have enough batting to score enough runs against NZ's classy attack.
As for the final England are meeting a side that is also reliant on a few players to bring the runs. NZ will need a runs from men who failed so far to compliment LRPL and Kane, or compensate if either or both fail. I think England will have enough batting to score enough runs against NZ's classy attack.
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TheJediBrah
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Bro they were just outplayed on the day. Sure team management clearly made mistakes but before you go on about the "systemic issues" just remember that Australia beat England in the group stage, and in a warm-up game. It just didn't work out for them last night.
ftr I've been advocating this forever. Aus selection has been hurt consistently over the last few years by shoehorning in 1) a seam bowling all-rounder and 2) a spinner, just for the sake of team balance. If the players you're picking aren't any good then any effect they have on team balance is outweighed by the direness of the players taking up the spot.
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TheJediBrah
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no Carey was the right choice to come out at 5. Stoinis should absolutely have come out ahead of Handscomb though. That was just pure stupidity from Aus mixing Handscomb & Stoinis' roles up so badly.
CricAddict
Cricketer Of The Year
Carey bats beautifully. I love watching him bat. Not sure why you guys think he can't bat at 5 or above permanently.
TheJediBrah
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They tried playing him as an opener when Warner was banned and he was atrocious. Though it looks now like he was just having an extended patch of bad form during that period.
he could probably bat anywhere and do a very good job. Needs to work on his keeping though, which I've been saying for a while and hopefully now people are starting to realise. Wade's a cleaner keeper in the short forms tbh.
stephen
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The problem isn't Carey batting 5, it's the risk management took by exposing him to the moving ball when batting later in the innings has been the one thing that's worked. It was risky and it meant we had no safety net after he got out. We duly crumbled. Would have been better to sacrifice Stoinis instead.